<Begin Segment 24>

TI: Okay, so this is a huge shift. So your father decided to, to segregate, to go back to Japan, your mom said, your mother said, "We should stay together as a family." So all of a sudden, from your perspective, you were thinking you would leave camp to go back into U.S. society. From that thinking, you now shifted just quickly to thinking now you're gonna go to Japan.

TA: Yeah.

TI: So what were you thinking when was happening?

TA: Shocked. Really shocked. Especially when you had to go tell your friends that we're going to, we're going to Japan, you know? All, your whole frame of mind is, "I'm going to go to Japan" -- I mean, outside. I'm going to work, I'm going to get a job as a houseboy, I'm gonna do something to help the family out. And you're saying, I'm going to go out, and your principals and teachers are saying, "You're going to go out." And then all of a sudden, we became a "disloyal." We were tagged with being disloyal. As being one of the "no-no boys" if you wanna, for that matter. And so it was a shock, a tremendous shock. My brother and I couldn't understand. We just... you know? [Laughs] And in, then we had to shift our way of thinking, we had to shift our friends. Now the loyals are saying, they don't want to associate with us, so you start thinking of people that --

TI: Because up to this point, you were, you associated more with the loyals?

TA: Oh, yeah.

TI: And then there was, and then you had the ones whose families --

TA: We looked, we looked at that the, we looked at the disloyals as, "Hmm." But then all of a sudden, we became one. [Laughs] But, yeah, it was a terrible shock.

TI: Now, did you and your brother, did you ever feel resentment towards your father for making this decision?

TA: No. No, not at that time, no. We, we felt that we should be going with the family. I think that the family was more important to us. We were taught that way; family. That's the bushido way, family. So as a result, we, we went along with it.

TI: Now, your brother was a little bit older, so he was probably old enough that he could probably have stayed --

TA: Yes, yes, yes.

TI: -- 'cause he was... was there, was he ever enticed to probably stay, or did he also think that he just needed to go with the family?

TA: No, he felt the same way, he says. Because by then, our uncles and whatnot, they're writing letters and telling Mom that, "Hey, this is what" -- they were planning for us. Later on I found out that they already knew that it was approved.

TI: That it was approved for them to leave Granada?

TA: For us to leave. It was approved.

CO: To transfer out of Topaz to Granada.

TA: Out of Topaz, it was approved. This is what I found out later, through my research.

TI: Oh, so it was just like the inefficiencies of the government to...

TA: Not inefficiency, I think it was...

CO: No, there's some...

TA: I think what happened -- first of all, what the policy was, you go to what they called the regional WRA, and you put the application, and then two camps have to agree for the exchange. All right, Topaz agreed, Granada agreed. In fact, Granada says, "Hey, when, we're expecting them. When are they gonna leave?" So we were that close to leaving. That's how close we were. And something triggered it, and, of course, I could speculate as to what, what did it, but either one, the Topaz project manager knew that the questionnaires were coming, prior briefing on that, or he received that unfavorable information, the informant report. Or because they became, maybe the U.S. army -- because of the FBI warrant, provided them the intelligence report. But for some reason or another, it was stopped. And so we didn't know that.

TI: Who knows for what reason, just something, it might have been just one person stopping it, just changed the whole life of...

TA: Yeah.

CO: Look, if you look at the inform-, I mean, FBI, the kind of hearsay and, and just so-called "derogatory" remarks about somebody, they are so flimsy and so unsubstantiated that they're meaningless. And yet --

TA: Yeah. But they will pick up.

CO: -- one little thing can do it.

TA: And like you say, surprised they released him, but they did. I think they released him for a reason. To, to quell the community and make sure that they understand it.

CO: I don't know that they are so... [laughs]

TA: I don't know. I really don't know.

TI: What, how did your father --

TA: Because other schoolteachers were picked up.

CO: Sure, and held.

TA: Held, so I don't know.

<End Segment 24> - Copyright © 2004 Densho. All Rights Reserved.