Densho Digital Archive
Densho Visual History Collection
Title: Elaine Ishikawa Hayes Interview III
Narrator: Elaine Ishikawa Hayes
Interviewer: Alice Ito
Location: Seattle, Washington
Date: June 24, 2004
Densho ID: denshovh-helaine-03-0007

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EH: The other thing CFRE did was test restaurants, because restaurants were famous in the late '50s. Well, late, late '40s into '50s, not every restaurant would allow blacks to come in. We had, we had a couple of experiences where there was a restaurant on Third and Union and we were, I don't know, on the way to a movie or something. And we waited and we waited and we didn't get served, so finally I went up to the cash register and said, "I think we were here long before they were." And at that point, they'd tell us, "Well, we don't serve Negroes," and that was that. But that happened two or three times. Well, Christian Friends for Racial Equality took it upon themselves to go in a group to restaurants, and I think they had to have some discussions, but, and they didn't picket, but they would put some pressure on. And it would end up, they'd be advocating boycotting if nothing else. But it, so it took time.

I think as late as... see, we had a house fire in late '60s, late... (yes), late '60s, and because the house was damaged enough, we were, we went to... we went to a seafood restaurant that was in the terminal, the salmon terminal area. And the kids were all there, and I guess I must say, I think to some extent we try to protect kids from that kind of experience. But when we all ordered our dinner, when Ralph's plate came, it was so loaded with salt he couldn't eat it. And that's, that may be a subtle way of doing things. And you try to avoid real traumatic, emotional experiences when you have kids, and I think at that point, we just shared with Ralph. Now, I would wonder if maybe one of us shouldn't have gone up and demanded a correction or a new plate. Whether we could have done it without arousing a lot of furor in the environment... I think we discussed it to a limited extent with the kids, but we didn't really carry on. And I think the Hayeses never went on and on about that kind of issue. We never made it a forceful -- I think a lot of black families would have, I think I had friends that probably would have done something about it; bring legal action or get them to write some kind of statement.

I think the other thing that I did, we did when we were traveling, and there must have been a time when I think... oh, I know. In Sandpoint, Idaho, we went to get a motel, and they turned us down. They said they were full, so when we passed -- we had to go to the restaurant to make this arrangement, and as they said, "No," we, they said they were full, so we got back in the car. And as we passed the motel, the vacancy sign was still there, so we went back, and I said, "You said it was full. Why is the vacancy sign still up?" But you couldn't win that issue, and the kids were tired, we had to find someplace to stay, so you let that pass. But thereafter, I always went in and registered. And I think when that happens, they can't, they can't turn you down once they take your registration. And that just becomes a subtle habit. I'm not sure that I even said this to the kids to this day. I certainly could, and I probably will one day.

But you avoid -- I remember at Christian Friends for Racial Equality, a Lietta King, who was, supported her family by teaching music, and she had a vast number of kids. I remember there was a psychiatrist as a speaker, and Lietta King asked... I forgot what the guy's name was, Dr. So-and-so, that, "What would you recommend?" She said, "I'm always in a dilemma about whether to tell my son to get, prepare him for negative experiences like this, or not to tell him because I don't want him to develop a complex about this. And what would you recommend?" you know, or she wanted to talk about it. And she wanted his insight on what could be consequences. And I can't, I think it stimulated a good discussion, but I, I can't remember.

You know, in cases like that, I think the black population or the audience could better help solve the situation, because we would all contribute to that kind of... I think we never had that kind of problem at Madrona as a school, just because there was a good leadership even in the rank and file in the PTA, and the teachers knew that we wouldn't tolerate. Or, not only we wouldn't tolerate, but that we would try to help solve that kind of, any kind of negative social problem. We, in Madrona we, PTA meeting, we decided, "Let's help the teachers. What can we do to help?" And, and so some of the teachers were willing to take a volunteer or two in the classroom every day, and we took turns doing that. And then we learned about the teacher's techniques and how well she copes with one difficult child. And then you realize that one difficult child, how disruptive that is to the classroom, and so then you get more involved. "What can we do to help our kids in the classroom? We don't want this disruption."

I remember one, when Larry was in fifth grade, a girl said to the teacher, "I don't have to do what you tell me to do." And I could just hear her having gotten some of that at home, criticizing white teachers or white people, and saying, "You don't have to do this or that." And the teacher kept saying, reminding the girl about respect. And Asian families would have really pushed the fact that teachers are to be respected, you know, adults are to be respected. But this girl was not about to... and Larry went through the whole drama -- I wasn't there, but she said, she says Mrs. So-and-so kept saying, "Respect" -- and then, by golly, the parent came marching in. The girl had gone home for lunch and the... and I thought, what a great opportunity that would have been for somebody to sit down with that parent and hammer some issues in, parents' responsibility versus teachers' responsibility and the support. But to that extent, that kind of thing went on occasionally, but usually that was the principal's role, to handle that kind of thing.

But genuinely speaking, I think we had a lot of good black participants in the PTA, and they would try to help, or they would try to be objective, and we would come up with all kinds of ideas. And one of those was we had a, small group discussions in a PTA meeting with a teacher or two, and three or four parents, and coming up with, you have a freer discussion with a smaller group. And having the teachers say what, what some of their major problems were, and having the parents participate, or at least listen. And when a first-grade teacher and a kindergarten teacher both said, "By the time we get some of these kids, it's too late." So from that, it was a jumping-off point, and we said, "What can we do? Let's do something before kindergarten. And I was working, I was on the Family Life staff already, the preschool co-op group, and a number, probably a dozen people who were participating in preschool co-ops. And so the idea was, "Let's, let's see if Family Life department won't let us have a preschool co-op system worked in, and we be substitute mothers." 'Cause, you know, if you're a welfare mother or a young teenage mother, you're not going to come out to participate.

And in those days, I think the thing you also have to remember, I learned early that there were, there were blacks who really... it's so ingrained in them not to talk to whites, because in the South, you don't, you don't talk to a white person unless you're spoken to. And they were very, a lot of parents were very reluctant to, to say anything to school, at school, or even worry about what their kids are doing or not doing. But anyway, at this PTA, we decided in one night, "Okay, let's ask Family Life department if they would let us set up a co-op for special kids, kids that were having, that are discipline problems or slow learners," and they could be easily identified, but when I approached public schools -- I mean, approached Family Life, they, we got into it with the principal. Olaf Kwami was a very good principal, and he's still quite a reputable guy. We decided to ask public schools for a social worker, social worker, also, to help recruit. But the schools knew they could make lists of kids that, for this program, it'd be very fitting. And I think maybe Harrison and T.T. Minor and Leschi probably participated. I know that, I wrote one letter and I, we got flooded with volunteers. Forty-five volunteers and, in one week's time, and they're all signed up and eager to help, and then, and interestingly, Madrona Presbyterian was kitty-corner almost, from Madrona school. And I think they were there at that PTA meeting, and Ed Crawford volunteered his church.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 2004 Densho. All Rights Reserved.