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Title: Elaine Ishikawa Hayes Interview III
Narrator: Elaine Ishikawa Hayes
Interviewer: Alice Ito
Location: Seattle, Washington
Date: June 24, 2004
Densho ID: denshovh-helaine-03-0014

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AI: Well, maybe, maybe again for folks who aren't familiar with the history of CAMP, CAMP stands for Central Area Motivation program, "Central Area" meaning here in Seattle, the Central Area, or Central District, which you've described before, was becoming increasingly black in the population area. And so when you're talking about the different centers that you developed as part of CAMP's program and the economic development program, can you kind of characterize these centers? Were they racially integrated, or were they primarily staffed by black staffers and tended by black children? How would you describe them?

EH: They, they were, I think any time you're working in a inner-city, it's maybe going to be numerically primarily black, or a good segment. But, but we always had, every one of those centers had several white families, a few Mexicans -- there weren't, in those days, there weren't many Chicanos in the Seattle area. There certainly weren't Asian, there certainly weren't Vietnamese, because the Vietnam War hadn't cropped up. But occasionally there would be an Asian family, a Chinese family, particularly single, single-parent families or a family with an ill parent. But basically, they were black and white. I had, I had two, two Asian teachers, or assistant teachers. I should remember... Margaret Hattori, Shikumi. I can't remember her name, but anyway, Mary Johnson was a Japanese war bride, but she was very good. And, and we had a good mix of teachers. People really wanted to -- there weren't, it was also true that in the late '60s, jobs weren't that plentiful either.

But the churches, every one of them allowed us facilities and didn't charge us rent. We paid for janitorial, we might hire their janitor to add another ten hours, twelve hours during the week. Sometimes we had to put things away because Sunday school or somebody else would... I did design, I bought unfinished bookshelves, had, had some carpenters put casters on the bottom, and put hinges to connect two bookshelves so they opened up like a book, but when it came time if we had to move 'em, we could just close 'em, put a hasp lock on the end, and with wheels, they could be rolled out. Eventually, I think with a lot of equipment, I had to run down to Goodwill and buy a lot of old bicycle tires, and had them put around the edges of plywood, 'cause we designed some moveable, a platform to move smaller pieces, and so we wouldn't scar the doorways. We just had them hammer bicycle tires around the edge so they would scratch the corners, because every one of these churches, we were using basically their Sunday school rooms. But this way, if we could lock the bookshelves and leave 'em in the classroom, it saved a lot of work.

AI: Well, so I wanted to ask you also, you had mentioned a little bit earlier that Walt Hundley had really strongly supported you as the administrator for this program, that he really wanted you there. And I was wondering, after he, after he made that statement, and after he convinced you to stay in this position, and the program grew so much while you were administering it. After that, did you have any other questioning about why you, as a Japanese American were in charge of this program? Did you, were there some, any protest or suggestion that an African American be brought in for this position?

EH: Well, what happened was, I was the only person in the area that had preschool, work with preschool, work experience with preschoolers. There was nobody else in, in the Central Area. There was a Naomi Murray who was the preschool teacher for Candy's co-op at the YW, but she ended up -- and she was a very strong person. One of the things I didn't like about, about Naomi was she would construct children's playhouses right there in the classroom, and we had to tolerate the hammering and everything. As a teacher, I didn't approve of her doing that during class, when the children were there. You do that kind of thing after the kids are gone. But, but she was, she was a hard worker and she was a good teacher. She took on the first preschool for disabled kids, special education kids, and she did that at Temple de Hirsch. Temple de Hirsch, again, opened another section of their, they had kind of a big gym, and Naomi, with very little equipment, she had a few climbers and tricycles, but those were the days when nobody had any training or programs for special-ed, and it was good the Naomi took that on. Bob Bass, who was eventually a public school principal, moved around a lot, Bob had one of the first Down Syndrome kids that I knew, and I remember David being in that, that class. But there were a lot of kids with that kind of handicap, and Naomi continued to do that kind of work.

There was probably a bit of resentment that, that I was there, but they needed somebody who was (going to) comply. The black teachers that -- and they weren't all black, there were a couple of people who were just marvelous people, and I think they just got, they couldn't fend off those that demanded their... "We know how to raise our kids," and I'd say, "You're not (going to) spank. I don't care whose kids they are, you're not (going to) spank any child in these programs." In the first place, License won't require it, but I'd have to say, "If you think you can't teach without the use of spanking, then you're the one that needs to go take some classes to understand why."

Head Start eventually gave us funding for training, so community colleges got so they would be willing to come into the classroom and teach on, for using what was happening. They would bring in supplies -- the donations of books and dolls and that was just amazing, unbelievable that we got flooded with all kinds of.... but the government eventually also would budget for good equipment, and I had a Ruth Benoleo who came out of Tri-Cities, had a degree in chemistry and domestic science, and that's about as far as you got with preschool education. She got that, she was a bit older than I was, and she got that probably, maybe in the late '40s. She, her husband had left her with four kids, and the only job she could get was in Job Corps out of, from Washington state's Tri-Cities, she had to move to Iowa to work in Job Corps, and that's a tough job. But she would come back once a month to check in with the kids, but her kids were high school kids. But eventually she decided that she couldn't do that, and she came into Seattle, saw our ad, and applied for the job. Now, working with -- well, she had the experience at Job Corps, but living in a white community like Richland, I think you need more assimilation. But she did, she did all right. That was a tough job; you cope with teachers who were not sometimes willing to do what you advocate. But I think in that kind of program, the education director probably has as tough a job as anybody, because you're also starting people who are just brand-new in the concept, and it takes a while to accept.

And I think in, I must say, I think in black, the black world, harsh discipline is -- what we call harsh discipline -- is kind of normal discipline in their eyes. And it takes a while for them to absorb it. We did send, we did continual training, it was almost mandatory to have continual training. Usually, the training went on during nap time, and, but we always had one or two people up at, even at Western. And we'd pay for tuition and room and board, and they would have to make their own arrangements to come back to check in on their families on the weekend. But even six months of full-time on the campus, it's a real learning experience. Most of those people would not have -- I remember two or three of 'em had never been on a college campus, but they made it. They don't always get a four-year degree, they might get an AA degree, but they could finish at a community college.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2004 Densho. All Rights Reserved.