<Begin Segment 14>

AI: Well, I think one of the things that has been commented upon quite a bit is that right immediately after September 11th, there was a huge outpouring of empathy from around the world toward the United States, and toward not only the direct victims of the tragedies but in general toward the United States. And that since that time there has been such a shift in attitude around the world toward the United States government and military.

PJ: Yeah. It's flipped completely and I remember seeing a USA Today poll that said that people perceive George Bush as the single greatest danger in the world, to world security.

AI: George W. Bush?

PJ: George W. Bush.

AI: Yeah.

PJ: Which I think is indicative of where we are. And I think that the continuing abuses and the continuing... and the things I'm talking about haven't stopped. I mean, just recently there was, there was a report in the paper about a Portland lawyer who was arrested by the FBI under material witness charges, which meant that they didn't have to prove, they didn't have to give anything to show why he was being arrested, it was just in the context of terrorism. And they found that... and it was because supposedly his fingerprints matched fingerprints on a bag that were found at the bombing in Madrid. And those haven't yielded anything. In fact, they weren't his fingerprints, but he's a Muslim lawyer.

AI: I thought that was interesting that he appeared to be a European American.

PJ: Uh-huh, convert to Islam.

AI: And had converted, and then apparently part of the case that was built against him had to do with his practice, his law practice representing other Muslims.

PJ: Muslims who were discriminated against, that's right. And you know, I think it's a huge concern of those of us, all of us who do this work, because they don't need, the government really doesn't need to prove anything in order to hold you. And I think that that is what has permeated the Muslim community and immigrant rights community for people who are doing this work, is that really, the laws providing that kind of justice. Because even if ultimately the justice system works, how do you measure the impact of 120,000 Americans of Japanese ancestry who were incarcerated? How do you measure the impact of the 1,200 Arab and Muslim men who were detained and shackled and left without any access to the justice system? So, ultimately they're released, but how do you measure for the Somali grocery stores that were closed down for six months? Their businesses are destroyed. So yes, they "won," but what does "winning" mean? It's a very ephemeral term.. It doesn't, it doesn't feel like winning when your business has been destroyed or your family name has been destroyed. And there is no recourse. There is no compensation, there's no apology, there is just, "We are in this war on terror and we have to take aggressive steps. And if you happen to be in the way, then we're sorry." You know, actually, not, "We're sorry," but, "You happen to be in the way."

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2004 Densho. All Rights Reserved.