<Begin Segment 20>

AI: You know, another thing I wanted to ask about was in the 1950s when your, your children were young. Of course, a lot was going on politically at that time, and I was wondering, because I think it was about 1949 or 1950, that Senator Joseph McCarthy was becoming very, very active in his anti-Communism, the so-called "red scare."

EH: I think that was even before we left Chicago, probably.

AI: Yes, actually, I think it was, he began in 1947 with the House Un-American Activities Committee, and I was wondering whether any of that news touched you or your, your lives or...

EH: (Yes), you know, Ralph being, having been a journalism person, was reading everything political. And, and Joe McCarthy was sticking up like a sore nail even before we left Chicago. When, when Ralph's brother was running for a vice-presidency in this seven state unions region, they labeled him a Communist. So we knew what the implications of that were. His mother was always worried, because it was a long, drawn-out court case. I mean, he had, he had to fight that for four or five years. And it was --

AI: Charles? Charles Hayes?

EH: (Yes). I don't know how, somebody, the union or somebody must have -- but the, it was a union that didn't want to give him that -- it was unusual for a black to get very high up into cabinet post positions, heads of, of regents, and they were fighting. And I'm sure there were people who, who were running against him for that position. Ultimately he won, but it took a long time. When Ralph, couple of times Ralph... initially he got a post office job early in the game. One of his first -- oh, I think maybe he was working for the post office before he started the U, somebody told me, and I wasn't aware of that, because I wasn't here. When he came in July, maybe he ran, he worked for the post office until the fall quarter. He probably didn't go to summer school. But that was, that was a good, secure move, because the post office couldn't refuse you, but at some point, when he left the university for a little while because of this red-baiting assignment, at some point he went, he went back to work for the post office, and I don't know whether it was for that, but for some reason, the FBI was all around his mother's neighborhood asking questions of Ralph Hayes, about Ralph Hayes. And the neighbors didn't know, because Ralph didn't live, hadn't lived in Chicago for, well, since '48, and this was maybe '50... I think after Larry was born, maybe he also did a stint in the post office. But it was good assurance, 'cause Christmastime particularly, you could always assure the, be assured of getting a part-time job. I think one summer he also delivered, but the FBI was all over that neighborhood, and pretty soon his mother called to say, "What are you doing and what did you do that the FBI is around here asking questions about you?" And whether that, I don't, I don't know whether that had a connection with Charlie Hayes, but it was easy to do -- here in Seattle, it was deadly, because there were three University of Washington, very well-accepted professors that just got blackballed forever.

<End Segment 20> - Copyright © 2004 Densho. All Rights Reserved.