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AI: Well, I wanted to ask about your preparing to leave Chicago. In our last interview session you already explained about why it was that Ralph, because of the discriminatory quota system for black students at Northwestern University --

EH: Journalism students. I don't know about the other departments but... and they were, Northwestern was famous for its quota system, probably in any department, (yes).

AI: And because he was, he, there was a requirement that he had to live on campus, but he could not, he was being refused space on campus because of the quota, then he decided to look for another university that he could go to and finish his undergraduate degree. So at about what time did, when did he and you begin discussing that perhaps you might move?

EH: Well, you know, when that happened at Northwestern, Joe Lowman, his boss, and Henry Wallace's vice president... you know, Henry Wallace was a third-party candidate for presidency, and his vice president candidate was... somebody Taylor, who was one of Ralph's journalism professors at Northwestern. There were a lot of people, Edwin Emery at, at Julius Rosenwald, people wanted Ralph to challenge that. But, you know, I think Ralph was in his late twenties probably, and he wanted to get through with school. So he didn't have time to be dealing with courts and that kind of thing. So he came in July. I think he, I think he came to take advantage of second half of summer session. And, and fortunately he found housing in veterans' Quonset huts on campus. And he was, his roommate was a Bill Brinsfield, a Garfield graduate, white guy, who was a forestry major. And fortunately, Bill having gone to Garfield was accustomed to black students, and they got along famously. He wrote, he had written, you know, two or three times asking... early he had asked if he would, if I would come as far as Seattle. And I said, "(Yes), I would go." So in November or October I came, wrote to the YWCA, and I point-blankly said to the YWCA, "If color is going to be a problem, tell me right now, because I'm going to be with a black student at the University of Washington, Negro student at the University of Washington." And I can't even remember what kind of reply I got, but I, I didn't get any negative response, so I stayed at the YW for a couple of weeks, and happened to see on the bulletin board, an employment bulletin board, somebody looking for a babysitter during the holidays. Well, first, before I did that, I went on campus, went to the registrar's office and asked me for, asked them for, Cletus Ralph Hayes' program, classes, and they gave it to me. So I knew where he was. And I hadn't -- I guess I'd hadn't exactly told him what time or when I was coming. And so I found the building and I stood outside the classroom and he just fell over when -- 'cause he hadn't expected to see me. And, but anyway...

AI: What a nice surprise.

EH: [Laughs] He, he thought that was a lot of nerve for me to do that without telling him. But I think the train ride in those days, there was no airplane boarding. Train, trains took from Chicago, three days and two nights. And that makes it a long haul. But I brought knitting, and I was reading, I grabbed a copy of Somerset Maugham's Razor's Edge, I guess it was. And, and then when this employment, this babysitting notice was on the bulletin board, I called and, and took the job. And I babysat two or three times and, and they finally said, "Would you like to live-in? There's a spare bedroom upstairs, and why don't you just stay here?" And then shortly after that, I also was on campus, and I noticed the American Friends Service Committee was right across the street from campus. And I just walked in. I knew... oh. I had a couple of Quaker friends at Tule Lake. Emily Light, I think, was one name. And she was a very popular English teacher. And got acquainted with the American Friends, and there was a Constance Honda here, who was about the same age. She was at UW campus, she was a student. And there was a black gal with her that came. Anyway, so it was an easy getting-acquainted situation.

AI: At American Friends --

EH: American Friends Service Committee. It's a Quaker service organization. So then, then they said, "Would you be interested in a job here? We need another typist." And so I, you know, I got the job there.

AI: And this was in 1948? Soon after you moved?

EH: (Yes).

AI: Or maybe early 1949?

EH: Early, (yes), early, probably early '49.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2004 Densho. All Rights Reserved.