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AI: I wanted to ask you, especially because in 1947, there were so many things going on in the country and the world that touched on issues of race. For example, Jackie Robinson became the first black in a major league baseball team, and, and then also in 1947, in world events, India got its independence from Britain, and as you were saying earlier, Palestine and Israel, that formation was happening. And I was wondering, were these topics of conversation at, you know, at the American Council, or just in your, in your circle of friends?

EH: (Yes), in American Council those were certainly topics of conversation, sometimes excitedly when something great was going to happen. It's interesting that I can't remember, I don't remember the dates for Jackie Robinson and Satchel Paige, but I remember those being very exciting issues, and, seems to me I recently saw, I guess Jackie Robinson must have happened first, and then Satchel Paige, but, I saw those dates, maybe it was Satchel Paige, and I thought, "Gee I, I didn't think, I wasn't in Chicago then," or something, so I have to research that to see, because I just remember the excited discussions about Satchel Paige.

There were, there were social, the other thing we used to go, was once in a while, Mahalia Jackson, for instance, was singing somewhere, and Ralph and I went, two or three artists like that, but jeepers, the conditions were so crowded that, you know, we couldn't stay, and I have to say that black music is too loud for me. [Laughs] I never really got into it. My kids did, but...

AI: You know, there was in incident that I, I read about, I didn't, I wasn't about to find too much information about it, but I read that in 1946 and 1947, and I think, even after that, there were some riots in Chicago, that, in which white residents were rioting against blacks who were moving into public housing. I think, in 1946 I read that there was something called Cicero Homes, or Airport Homes, and then in the next year, '47, there was something called, an area called Fernwood. Do you recall any, anything like that?

EH: No, they may have gone on, but, you know, Chicago is such an immense place, I think, I think there were four million blacks alone. So the city was probably ten or eleven million totally, and I think when those kinds of -- they were just too far, I don't really, though I think if that kind of thing went on at American Council, we would have been, maybe not sending reporters, but we, we would've certainly known details. Now, the issue with American Council was, Julius Rosenwald had, had a firm belief that each generation needed to take care of its own. And he said this I think in 1922 -- at least, I think that's when, I think that's when he started Julius Rosenwald Foundation. And so when I was leaving in '48, or just before I was, maybe the year, within the year before I left, was a final, finale of Julius Rosenwald Foundation, and it was held at, Blackstone Hotel, or somewhere on Michigan, or one of the big downtown hotels. And the place was massive, with people, all the Julius, Julius Rosenwald Foundation recipients, people like Catherine Graham, and, Catherine Graham? No, Catherine, a dancer, Catherine Dunham?

JP: Martha Graham?

AI: I think Catherine Dunham. I think you're right.

EH: (Yes). Marian Anderson, a Pearl Bailey, I think. Several, several people like that came to the function. And the place was so massive, we couldn't even see them from where we were sitting, but the staff was all invited, and... so that was kind of the closure, I think, of Julius Rosenwald Foundation. So it, you know, it wouldn't have lasted much longer, except that the agencies, like Segregation in the Nation's Capital, and the, and the polling institution, whether it was Roper or somebody else, I can't remember. The Julius Rosenwald Foundation probably had years of, of research to finish, and I don't know that they kept that house. I should have managed to buzz by there, or talk one of my relatives into driving by there to see what's happened to that solid house. It's probably being used for something else.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2004 Densho. All Rights Reserved.