<Begin Segment 11>

AI: Well, so, let me ask you, at that time then, when you went to visit Ralph's parents and family at the project, would you say that the project was mostly black, or --

EH: Oh, totally black, totally. In Chicago, you're, the whole half, I think, at that time, of Chicago, was totally black. And when I was working for American Council on Race Relations, that was a major issue. But here I was working in a circle of fairly elite, educated people. Ralph Metcalfe, the Olympic track guy, his wife was in, on the -- she was about, maybe the same age, almost, maybe a little younger, when I was reading Chow Lee's obituary, he was among the congressmen that were there, and so, apparently, Fay Metcalfe's husband became a -- there was, there were two or three other people who were, who, whose husbands... see, these were kids fresh out of college, and ultimately they made something of themselves.

AI: Well, so tell me about your visit with, your first visit with Ralph's parents.

EH: Well, they were cordial, very cramped quarters, 'cause they always had grandkids to take care of. But, you know, they -- in fact, I was picking up, one of the things I was doing was picking up Ralph's sister's kids, who, grandmother took care of on the weekend, or something, they were spending time down there, so I brought 'em back. They were ten and five. And, you know, it was, I just knew I, I should meet them before I came to Seattle, so -- my mother even ventured out there, that was, that was kind of amazing. I didn't -- I, it was years later before I heard that. "Oh, I met them. (Yes), they were good people." Her father, Ralph's father was working in the meat packers, as Charlie was able to get a job. But, mother always had, I think his youngest sisters were probably, well, they were all, they were still in school, they were in high school. And...

AI: I was wondering if, if you felt that Ralph's parents were at all concerned, because you were Japanese American.

EH: Not in the least. I think blacks would always include anybody else. Because, you know, socially, and, and economically, they knew they were at the bottom of the rung. So whoever else they were able to meet, or associate with, was a step in the right direction for them. It was kind of a, I'm sure, a rare opportunity, but they were cordial, no matter who it was. And then Charlie -- the oldest brother by that time -- Charlie, apparently first, he got married shortly after his twentieth birthday, and so he and his wife were in Chicago already. And, by the, in ten years' time, in the labor movement, he would have probably brought white affiliates home with him, but there was a lot of mixing of the races in Chicago, you just didn't hear about it if you weren't in the right circles. And there were a lot of people that I didn't meet. What's her name... Endo, Mitsuye Endo, Mitsuye Endo was one of the Supreme Court cases, she was a Sacramentan, and I, I should have gone out of my way to look her up, just to say, "Hi." I knew her sister Grace better than I knew Mitsuye, but there was a, she was working for Homer, Homer Harris, Homer... anyway, Jack Homer, Homer Jack. Homer Jack was the head of a big, kind of a social integrationist agency -- I can't remember whether that was part of the city -- but there was, the place was so big, a lot of universities, so that millions of people were out there. You just never saw anybody. If you went to an occasion, you don't expect to meet somebody you know because the crowd is so big, or there's facets, so different.

AI: So when you were saying that there was a lot of mixing of the races, where were some of those places that, that the mixing would happen?

EH: Oh, organizations. We went to, after Ralph and I started dating, we went to Ethnic, Ethnic Cultural Society. There were a few blacks, I don't think there were any Asians. And it wasn't that big a group, but it was almost a weekly, weekly event. I think my circle, my associating circle was kind of around American Council friends. We, sometimes we had weekend parties at somebody's apartment, and you did learn to be careful, you had to, you had to be on the bus going home by such and such a time, you didn't, you didn't want to be caught in that neighborhood at eleven o'clock, or, there were brief explanations, or instructions like that. Ralph's family, at some point, I think maybe by the time we decided to come to Chicago -- well, no, it was later than that -- Charles was able to establish the only union hall in a black community, and the family had a lot of reunions, or celebrations at that, then. And, when we were back in Chicago I had to, we made a point to do things like, join things like that. But initially, socially, I don't, I didn't really socialize with the Hayeses except his sister Helen was not too, not too far so I met them.

And (yes), we would have church functions once in a while. I didn't go to the Presbyterian, to Fourth Presbyterian very often, maybe once or twice, once in a month or once in two months. Some speaker, special speaker was coming, or somebody was going to be there that I want to meet, or they were on their way going somewhere else, my mother would say, "You (going to) come and meet So-and-so?" Or, "So-and-so's (going to) be there." So then I would come. I have a unique picture, there must have been probably thirty people in that picture. And it's an early relocation gathering in a white church on the south side of Chicago. You know, Chicago is very distinctly, it could be well-mixed and predominantly white, and then you go, reach a certain street, and it's all totally black. Now, now it's, the black ghetto, kind of, is still there, but it, the rest of it is much more integrated, and the suburbia has grown so much that it's really a mixed area now. I think a couple of my sisters -- well, Helen and another sister, still live in a predominantly black area, but, you know, solid brick houses, and brick apartment buildings. But in the Nisei community, I think eventually, there, I know that there's an active Buddhist church, and, and I think there was another Congregational church or something. And I haven't been there since mid-'40s, although I, we went back every year, almost, because both grandparents were there.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2004 Densho. All Rights Reserved.