<Begin Segment 57>

AI: Well, you know, I did want to stay a little bit with this, this topic of the intergroup relations and the people's prejudices at this time. Because we're still talking about the late '40s when you and Ralph were, were dating. And that your mother clearly was somewhat unusual in that she was not so prejudiced against people who were not Japanese American, or people, in fact, she had a friendship with a black woman. But what, what about perceptions or treatment that you and Ralph might have received from other Japanese Americans at that time? As, it was rather unusual to have an interracial couple.

EH: Oh, (yes). Let's see, in Chicago I didn't think, I didn't think I ran into that trouble. I do, I remember meeting a friend in the University of Chicago area and introducing him. And probably surprised, but he, he wouldn't have been in opposition. He was in, he was at some college, I think teaching by then. And then, I don't know that -- let's see. I, I really can't, I don't think I had any negative experiences, but also, we didn't mix with a lot of Niseis at that time. I might, I went to a couple of JACL functions, in fact, Mary Sadasawa and I worked together, and I think she was president of JACL at that time. And it was a little bit disturbing to me, I was in a carpool after the meeting, going home, and we had, the speaker was the head of porter's union, the black porters' train employees. And he's a well-known fellow, but he was, he was the speaker and he said, he was saying that his grandmother had to deliberately chop her hands off to keep the master from selling her. And, and his point was, "That's, that's the degree to which we want to maintain our families also, but we were never... we were never in control of what happens." 'Cause they could sell -- you know, in that era, this must have been pre-Civil War, and this guy was old when I heard him, and I think he probably died twenty years after that. (Yes), I wish I remembered his name. But anyway, the conversation in the car was, "God, what does he expect us to do with that information?" You know, there wasn't any emoting or analysis or real feeling or concern. And I think part of my education was that I was working for, for American Council, so I knew what the tone of the era was. And I, I kind of remember being surprised that Mary didn't have anything to say. But Mary was kind of in -- and I'm not sure that, Mary was certainly active in her, in Nisei circles, but Antioch College is a, is an unusually liberal college. And so she didn't, she certainly got along all right in the work environment, she was always berating Roosevelt and the California governor that went to the Supreme Court and apparently voted against Hirabayashi and Korematsu.

AI: Earl Warren.

EH: (Yes), uh-huh. Terrible. I have to write these names down if I'm (going to) do this. But anyway, my feeling was Roosevelt signed it, but I bet he was under pressure and had no choice but to sign it at that time. The, DeWitt had a lot of power, and he might have very well lost the next election had he not been willing to sign -- though I, the Roosevelts have always regretted that. And I've heard that -- there's a Roosevelt here that lives at, in Redmond, one of the sons, and I've heard that comment. And I, I'm sure everybody that had to do with evacuation was embarrassed about it. But that governor who was California's governor, and I think he was maybe UC Berkeley regent. Anyway, there are issues like that.

But generally speaking, here, there were a couple. I think my daughter had problems with the kids that she grew up, when we came back from Berkeley. You know, you're also at a different age level. She was, elementary school, she spent her eighth grade in Berkeley and came back here at ninth grade and found that a lot of her Asian friends weren't talking to her. And she, she called that to my attention, but that kind of didn't slow her up. She was a very counterculture person, anyway, loud and vocal. And you know, she went on to, to be she was (president) of her Roosevelt junior class and went to Girls State, and went to Pitzer. But at one point, there was a Hilda Bryant who was a P-I reporter, and she called me at work. And, and said, "Elaine, you have some of the oldest kids of, racially mixed kids." And I said, "(Yes)." And she says, "Can I interview them?" And I said, "You have to ask them." And Candy kind of exploded in that interview. She, I, she came early, not telling us she was coming early, but she came early enough so that she could catch everybody at the dinner table and then would ask them if they'd be willing let her interview them, and that was kind of fun. Things, it's interesting, when I look at that, then times have changed. But the Kuroses got Ralph to be Cub Scoutmaster at the First Baptist Church, and he hated that. I mean, he doesn't like uniforms, he doesn't like anything that has to do with (the) military. And it was a tough job to get him to -- I don't know that he, I don't, I don't know that I ever saw him in a uniform, but the, but the Cub Scout duties he had to follow through. And my oldest one is the only one -- my, my middle guy just wasn't... I could never get him to do anything that he's supposed to do in that kind of setting.

But (yes), I think at... in elementary school, at Madrona, I think it was all right. There, there were a couple of awkward moments, when, for instance, there was a Nisei mother that you all probably know... when Candy came over, she always made sure that there was mustard greens. [Laughs] And Candy came home, even at third grade, saying, "Why does she always do that?" And, and she would, she would serve Candy differently than the rest of the family. And I said, "Well, do you want me to tell her that you like Japanese food just like anybody else?" "No."

<End Segment 57> - Copyright © 2004 Densho. All Rights Reserved.