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AI: So that was 1990 that you got your MBA, and you joined Physio-Control. So tell a little bit about being out in the Midwest.

PJ: Oh, my gosh. Well, it was very complicated because the, all of the -- I never knew this, but sales for... sales is a very prestigious thing if it's in the high-end equipment, because it's all commission-based. So if you sell a piece of equipment, that's $10,000, so IBM and the medical companies are really like the top-ranked salespeople, and it's a very, it's, I guess it's got this own trajectory of getting to that level. So this was a new project, a new program for Physio, and all of a sudden, they were introducing MBAs who had no sales experience, had never sold a thing in their lives, into a very competitive sales environment. And the districts competed with each other. So individual sales reps competed within the district, and then the districts competed for kind of a national prize. And so my district was furious, because there had been a guy there named Gary who was like the quintessential Midwestern sales guy. He loved football, he loved steaks, he had good relationships with all the guys who ran the equipment departments, 'cause everybody, a lot of them were men. And Gary was being promoted to the D.C. office, I think, national sales, and then I was coming in to take his place. And there were all these people who had interviewed for the position, and then Tom, my district manager, was told, "This is who you're getting." And he was not happy, and the district had never had a woman, ever. It was actually under target. Gary's account was, which was, since it basically covered all of western Ohio and then all of eastern Indiana, was my territory. So the territory had been under target, and they were really looking for somebody who, who was gonna come in and do great things with it. And I was not what they envisioned at all.

And so I came in and it was very hard, because I was in Cincinnati. I had never lived in a -- I mean, the closest I had come was Chicago, which was a Midwestern town, but, you know, big. And so I'd never lived in a smaller town, and certainly never spent all this time with... my accounts included not just doctors and hospitals and nurses, but also all of the EMTs and the firefighters, because we had these automatic defibrillators that we were selling to... so it was kind of this range of people. And we had this big cart, so I had a, like a cart that... and I had this big Ford Aerostar van, blue van. And I would have to put all the equipment on the cart, and then you'd pull out the cart, and then it had these legs that would just click out from under it, and then you'd like take your cart and go through the hospital or wherever it was. And I had to learn all the products, which was easy. I mean, really, sales is just, it's not that difficult, and I liked the product. I mean, I liked the fact that it was heart saving. But it was boring; you just said the same thing over and over again to different people.

But because I'd come in and there was so much hostility, I was determined that I was gonna show them that, that they were wrong. And so I had to stay in long enough to, to do that. But I really hated it. I mean, it was long drives, it was boring, they gave me a new product line that was a, kind of a... it was called an STM monitor. It was a cardiac monitor that would monitor all twelve leads and could actually detect ischemia. And I got to work with this cardiologist from Duke to design kind of the marketing strategy for the product, because I was so bored with the other products, and I picked up the STM really quickly, and so they said, "Do you want to work with him?" And so I said, "Yes," and so that was, that was good. I joined the -- I became friends with the paramedics in downtown Cincinnati, and I would go with them on Friday nights on their, on their runs. And so Mike Uphus -- who was the lieutenant, the, kind of the chief of that unit, the downtown unit -- and I became friends. Very unlikely friendship, but I really liked Mike, and Mike really liked me, and I felt like if I was gonna sell my product well, I should know how people used it. And so I would go out, and I found that fascinating. And he would teach me, I mean, he taught me a few things like how to run a needle, line in and things like that that were, just kind of kept me engaged.

But, you know, I would go into these small towns, and it was all these firefighters, and I, and they didn't want to have anything to do with me. I was a woman, I was black in their eyes, and they just didn't want to have anything to do with me. But it would change, because I would -- then what would happen is I'd start talking about being out with the medics, and then they'd say, "Oh, you went out with the medics?" And then I'd do really dramatic things like throw the defibrillator across the room, because -- and they had taught us that in sales training, too, but that's one of the things that they care about, is that this thing gets dropped all the time. And so it was just, and so by the end, it would be okay.

But I would go into these situations where I'd have to do training for firefighters, and everybody would stand up and sing "God Bless America" and "Pledge Allegiance to the Flag," and I wasn't singing. Or they'd say grace and I wasn't saying grace. And so there'd be like this muttering, and then a lot of comments about, "Well, why do you look -- " you know, "How come, where're you from, and how come you look that way?" "So, what do they do in India? Y'all have showers over there?" I mean, just kind of amazing stuff. But there were some really good-hearted people, too, and I think that so much of it is ignorance. I mean, so much is just, you just don't know, and you have these preconceptions and, just like I do. I mean, I realized all the preconceptions I have about the Midwest and small towns and what people look like. And a lot of them weren't, weren't necessarily true. So I think both ways, it was a huge learning opportunity for me, but it was also very difficult.

And my boss, I remember once, he sat down with me for an evaluation, I think it was maybe six months into the job, and I was beating all the numbers before, and he said, "Well, you're doing a really good job, but there's something I have to talk to you about." And I said, I said, "What's that?" And he said, "Well, I just really think you need to dress differently." And I said, "What do you mean?" And he said, "Well, you just wear such bright colors, and, you know, you just need to look more professional." And I said, "I wear suits, I wear dresses, I never dress inappropriately." I said, "I'm not, why should I wear black and brown?" And he said, "Well, you know, that's what they're used to, and that's what the guys do." And I said, "Well, I'm not a guy." I said, "It doesn't seem to be affecting my sales." And I said, you know, that's, I think that's, I think I can sue you for that. He said, "Well, that's not what I meant." But, you know, it was that kind of thing, and felt constantly like I was sort of battling uphill. But it was really important to me to just show that I could do it, not for me, but for them to be able to see that... you know, and it was hard for the guys, 'cause I beat them, and they didn't like that.

AI: So just in the act of really proving them wrong, it didn't necessarily decrease their hostility at some level.

PJ: No, but I think it did increase their understanding that it wasn't just white men that could do the job. But it then created all these other tensions.

AI: My goodness.

PJ: [Laughs]

<End Segment 25> - Copyright © 2004 Densho. All Rights Reserved.