<Begin Segment 20>

AI: Well, you were just mentioning people kind of laughingly saying, "How did you get that job?" But did you ever face serious questions as to, "How did you get this job?" Implying or perhaps even explicitly stating, "Oh, you must have been an affirmative action hire." Was that ever something that came up?

PJ: Only later. Not from my... there was one, there was one position, and I think it was at, it was one of the top investment banks, like Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley, or one of them. And somebody was, and this person who was actually a friend, a guy, came to me and said, "Well, you just got the job because you're a woman, and because you're, you're exotic." I think he used the word "exotic." And I was so shocked, and the only other time that had happened was, there was a youth leadership program that I had applied for, and they picked people from all around the country and then we went to Texas or something, I don't remember what it was, but, and it wasn't a long program, but it was a, I guess it was an honor. And I had the same thing happen there, where somebody -- at that time it wasn't somebody who was a friend, it was somebody I didn't know -- who came to me and said, "The only reason you got this is because you're, because you're -- " and same thing, it focused on both being a woman and being foreign. And so I, so I remember both of those comments, and I just remember thinking, "What's their problem?" I don't remember taking it personally at that time, whereas I did take the comment from the investment bank -- I mean, I was furious about that comment. And I think part of it is I just felt like I deserve it. And so I didn't, it didn't send me into a wave of trauma.

The stuff that, that got to me was much more, was much more under the surface. It was a way that women were treated in investment banking. It was a way that people of color -- I mean, there were very few people of color in investment banking. Very, very, very few. And I noticed that. And I also, just, people always think I'm about twenty-six, even now, I'm thirty-eight, and people think that I'm much younger than I, than I am. And I've always kind of looked the same. [Laughs] And so, when I was twenty, people thought I was really young, and how much younger can you be, really? But, you know, still, and so I would go into these rooms with older white men who were really powerful, had a lot of money, and I would sense that initial place, where they would kind of look at me like, "How are you supposed to do this job? You're a woman, and you're, you're not white." And it felt like a very exclusive club. I hated it. I hated investment banking, really.

<End Segment 20> - Copyright © 2004 Densho. All Rights Reserved.