<Begin Segment 13>

AI: So, we're continuing our interview with Pramila Jayapal, and Pramila, I wanted to ask you about, a little bit about your sister's experience. That, you had mentioned in your book that your parents decided that they would do their best to send her to the United States for college.

PJ: Right.

AI: And then that set in motion a number of things, including your own desire to go to the United States.

PJ: Yeah, I think my father, again, was the driving force. He really believed that the United States had the best education. And it's interesting 'cause a lot of Indians felt that England had, the British system was better, and partly, I think, going, being around all these Americans in Indonesia, and partly going to the International School, we had such a good experience there, and that was based on American system. So my father had decided that this was where he wanted us to go. And so my sister in 1979 went off to Pennsylvania, she went to Swarthmore College. And it was just kind of a given that that's what she was gonna do, and she was really excited and it was a given that I would follow and go to, go to the United States as well. But you know, I've thought about it so many times, I've asked my mother about it so many times: "How did they manage to send their kids off all the way away?" We were sixteen. I mean, both of us were sixteen. My parents didn't have enough money for us to visit often or even call. I remember, I think we would talk to each other maybe twice, on our birthdays and then I think maybe on New Year's would be kind of the time that we would get to talk to them, and other than that, we were just off on our own. So my sister was the first one to do that, and she went to Swarthmore, and she was really happy there. I mean, she, it was a really good school, and my father was delighted because she got, very early on, I think she got a scholarship, and she got her room and board paid for. And she and I were just talking about it yesterday, actually, I was in Portland this weekend. And she said, "You know, it only cost -- " I think it was seven thousand dollars or something at the time, for Swarthmore. [Laugh] And she said, "And that was a fortune." It was. I mean, it was a huge amount of money, and of course, now it's $35,000 or something like that, but I know that money was kind of always dicey in terms of being able to afford it, but yeah, she loved it.

AI: And so when you talked to your sister while she was there, it sounds like she had really good things to say about her experience, that she was happy, she was positive. And did she say anything in particular about college there, about America that enticed you or that gave, or that gave you any second thoughts?

PJ: You know, I don't remember her talking about it very much, other than to say that she was... you know, she had all this freedom from my family and from my parents and so I remember her talking about that, and how great it was that... just all the typical college things. I mean, that nobody knew what time she came in and all of that kind of stuff. But I don't remember her talking about being a big culture shock or, or even some of the, a lot of the things that I went through. But my sister is very, we're very similar in some ways, and we're very close, but she's also quite different. She's much more contained, sort of self-contained, and much less emotional, and also has never really gone through all this India, sort of finding her own heritage. I mean, she's just never really struggled with that for whatever reason. And so I don't think it was a big deal for her. I think it felt very kind of natural, and, you know, it was what she expected and she fit in very well, and she seemed very happy.

AI: Well, and just earlier you had mentioned wondering how your parents could have let her go off at such a young age, and you also. Do you think that they had an idea that you might stay in the United States? Did they talk to you at all about plans for the future, and...

PJ: No, they didn't talk to us about plans for the future, though my father -- you know, my father's big dream was that my sister and I were gonna be CEOs of IBM. I mean, that was the, the thing for him. But they, other than that, they didn't really talk about it. But I've asked my, my mother in particular, since then. I've said, "Did you know, when you sent us away, that you were essentially sending us away forever?" And my mother has said, "Yes." She thinks she knew that. She said she couldn't think about it so much, because it would have been even harder, and she had a very hard time. She would, we would always tease her because she would always cry when we were leaving, and... or is it the other way around? Anyway, she, it was whatever it was that was unexpected. So I guess when we were coming. That's what, yeah, she would always cry when we came, and she said it was just so hard for her because she was so -- one thing I didn't say about my mother -- she absolutely loved being a mother. I mean, she was just... she only started working when we were, later in kind of junior high, and she was working part-time as an English teacher at what was called the Lembaga Indonesia Amerika. It was a, taught English to Indonesians. And, but her first and foremost priority in life was her kids. And she has a story where when she was pregnant she would walk around with her stomach sort of sticking out, and my father apparently would say, "Don't do that. People will know what we've been doing." [Laughs] She, but she was just, it was always something that was really, you know, just what she wanted. And so I imagine it must have been -- and not just imagine -- she's told me it was very, very difficult for her. But she, again, wanted kind of what was best for us. And she was, she always used to tell us, "Make sure that you're self-sufficient. Don't depend on anybody else for anything." And I think part of that is also her experience with my dad, being very dependent on him, and not wanting us to be in the same position.

AI: Well, you've, you were certainly, kind of bore that out -- [laughs] -- as we'll talk about later.

<End Segment 13> - Copyright © 2004 Densho. All Rights Reserved.