<Begin Segment 23>

AI: Well, now also, you had started taking some steps to renounce your citizenship. And, could you tell me, when did you first discuss that with your parents and what did you have to do to start that process?

AO: My mother said, told me that she had requested through the Spanish embassy to be included in the transporting to Crystal City to be qualified to be used as civilian exchange. And knowing that we were still classified as U.S. citizenship, and that in order to qualify, the Spanish embassy had requested my mother, or my parents to change the spelling of our name from "Okami" -- to "Okami" from "Ogami," just the word, just the word, spelling. So we had to change our name and have it notarized. And I'm trying to recall... and I'm positive that it was changed in Tule Lake because the county that had to certify it was in Modoc County and that's Tule Lake.

AI: Do you have any idea why they requested that this, that name change?

AO: The spelling?

AI: The spelling?

AO: Because the, the Chinese character of our name is correctly pronounced "Ogami." And, but at the time my father was living in United States, Ogami was a little difficult for the Caucasians to pronounce so they just changed the "g" to a "k." And our name from thereafter was pronounced all different ways, "Okami," "Okamee," "Okame," but it didn't matter to us, a name is a name.

AI: But for the purposes of your parents returning to Japan, they needed to make this change.

AO: Yes, so correspond with the Chinese character.

AI: And so then the family name, the spelling, the Romanized spelling was changed to "Ogami."

AO: Yes, and it still remains Ogami.

AI: And what did you need to do for the citizenship renouncing?

AO: It was, I don't remember whether we signed documents to renounce, but as to the loyalty oath -- I mean the loyalty question, probably they just regarded us as in favor of giving up our U.S. citizen rights. Probably we did sign documents to that respect.

AI: I did read that supposedly, if a proper procedure was done, that each person renouncing United States citizenship was supposed to have an individual hearing. Do you recall anything like that, meeting with somebody, probably in Tule Lake to discuss renouncing your citizenship or signing anything in front of an official person?

AO: At the time of answering the questions it was the individual hearing officer. And I don't recall whether that was in Manzanar or Tule Lake but I'm pos-, I'm pretty positive that I answered 27, 28 in Manzanar and that qualified me to go to, be transferred to Tule Lake.

AI: Right. Well, while you were in Tule Lake, there were some incidents at the Tule Lake camp that were pretty serious. I read that in May of 1944, that James Okamoto was shot and killed by a guard. Do you have any recollection of that?

AO: No particular recollection but I do know that incidents did happen in Tule Lake. I wasn't involved in any organizations that were extremely violent. The only organization was Hokoku Seinendan and that was the wishes of my parents to be in there in name only, but I did participate in military-type of calisthenics, marching, and we did march around there military-style and military command. And marching, that we had to march and that there's a trot-type of marching they call, that was called kakeashi, ashi, kakeashi. And to make a right turn, left turn, turn about, that's all in Japanese military style.

AI: Well, another thing that happened in Tule Lake was that there were some rumors spread that families would be separated and that possibly parents might be sent one place and children to another. Did you hear any of these rumors or did they affect you or your family in any way?

AO: I don't recall that rumors. Probably the, anyone, any of us that were, answered the question 27, 28 "no-no" and some in the family may have "no-yes," they might be, presumably separated.

AI: But you, yourself, and your parents, you weren't worried that you were going to be separated?

AO: No, I was positive that we'll be intact and be, and go to Japan if that was possible.

<End Segment 23> - Copyright © 2004 Densho. All Rights Reserved.