<Begin Segment 35>

AI: We're continuing our interview with Betty Morita Shibayama. And Betty, before our break, you had been talking about your kids, but I wanted to back up a little bit and ask you about this picture. If you could tell us about that, about when that was?

BS: This was in April of 1952, well, it was probably May because Art was drafted in April of... what did I say? '52? And he had to report to Fort Sheridan and so I went to visit him at Fort Sheridan and from there he was going to be sent to basic training in Arkansas.

AI: Well, so then, getting back to the 1960s when your son, your daughter and your son were little kids and then starting, going to school, I was wondering, you had mentioned how you really didn't want for them to have Japanese names. Were you concerned at all that they might face some prejudice in school, or did you have any sense that they, that they experienced any kind of discrimination?

BS: Well, I don't know, but when I think back to it, it was like, I think because of our camp experience, I just wanted to be removed from anything Japanese. And, of course, you think about it, with "Shibayama" you can't help but say it's a Japanese name so I shouldn't have had any, you know, any fear or doubts about that, but...

AI: And as they were growing up, did they ever say anything to you about any, that they had experienced any harassment for being Japanese American or experiencing anything like that?

BS: No, no.

AI: Well, that's fortunate. That's good to hear.

BS: Yes, yes.

AI: Another thing I was wondering about was also as they were growing up, what the race relations were like in Chicago at that time, in the 1960s.

BS: '60... I think the only thing were, you know, the discrimination against the blacks. And they used to, I don't know when it was, but one of the... it must have been in the '60s when they had the riots and I vaguely remember the... I think they had the convention, the national convention there when they had rioting. And then I don't know what sparked the rioting where, on the west side of Chicago. What was it? Martin Luther King? When was he... that was the...

AI: 1964.

BS: Or Malcolm X or Malcolm X was, I don't know when he was killed, so, but there was rioting on the west side of Chicago and that's where my sister Ruth and her husband had a laundromat on the west side, that was West Madison. And I think there was quite a bit of looting and rioting around there, too.

AI: So, and during this time, were you concerned at all that this might affect you or your kids?

BS: No, I really didn't.

AI: Well, because you were farther north, is that right?

BS: Uh-huh.

AI: In the north part of Chicago.

BS: Uh-huh.

AI: Tell me a little bit about your kids as they were growing up. Did you and Art ever talk to them about what had happened during World War II? Or being in camps, anything of that sort?

BS: No, I, we really didn't. And I think they would overhear our conversations with our, with our siblings, with my family, with my grandparents, with my parents, talking about camp and they probably overheard those conversations but they never asked us questions or anything about that.

AI: I'm wondering, too, if, if they ever asked anything about... had any questions about being Japanese American, that there were not that many Japanese American kids in their school, so --

BS: No, I guess, I guess they probably didn't even feel Japanese. I guess they just mixed in with everyone else.

AI: And I know I had, from talking to other folks, have heard similar comments that their kids didn't really grow up thinking of themselves as Japanese, or Japanese American too much. And, did you and Art have them join in any kind of Japanese American community activities or celebrations of any sort?

BS: No, except the church that they attended when they were kids, it was a, it was a Methodist church in Chicago and it was a Japanese congregation, but other activities, no, except family, family.

AI: Right. So a lot of that would really be family gatherings, family get-togethers.

BS: Uh-huh.

AI: Well, is there, is there anything else about your time in Chicago when the kids were young that you recall that you wanted to mention? Anything that stands out in your mind?

BS: No, I... no, not really.

<End Segment 35> - Copyright © 2003 Densho. All Rights Reserved.