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TK: So, can we start with the court-martial, and then you had these twenty-seven Isseis who --

MT: Twenty-three Isseis.

TK: Oh, who were at Fort Bliss, Texas, and you were helping to interpret. Could you tell us more about what happened after that?

MT: So, but the upshot was, like I mentioned, the camp commander was very worried that two aliens were killed by United States army soldiers. And so they went through that procedure to notify Japan. And so, during the, during the court-martial, I think it was about -- so, the court-martial lasted about five, six days. But about the third, second day or third day, the leader of the witnesses came up and said, "Mr. Tsubota, the, just because the United States is at war with Japan," he says, "Chotto baka ni shitoru," which means "they're making fools out of us." And so I was concerned, I said, "Well, how do you mean they're baka ni shitoru?" And he says, "Well, when we finished the general court-martial here and go back to our quarters, we tried to take a shower and they turned all of the hot water off and they're trying to make us take a shower in cold water." And he didn't think that was right and that, "They were doing it purposely because we're Japanese." And so there was a major that was very, very nice to me that were intermediate between me and the general court-martial. And so I talked to the major. And I said, "Major, gosh, I'm worried and concerned that the Isseis are very upset that when they leave here they go back to their quarters and they got their hot water turned off so that they can't take a hot shower and expect 'em to take a cold water shower." And he said, "Well, geez, that's bad, Min." He says, "I'll look into it right away." And so he left right away and I don't think it was twenty minutes and he came back and he said, "Min, I found the answer." And I said, "What happened?" He said, "Please explain to the Isseis that nobody is trying to be, put 'em in a serious, a bad situation or anything like that, but what happened is, before the Isseis go back from here to their quarter, the German and Italian prisoners are coming back to the quarters and they all go to the shower first and they used up all the hot water, therefore there's only cold water left." So he said, "Please, please tell them that we respect them, we think they're the high, highly respect these people and although they're born and raised in Japan that they're really human beings and we want to treat 'em like human beings. And please tell 'em that the Italian prisoners and German prisoners have used up all the water." And so what, we, he said, when I made the arrangements that, as of today, we got, I think it was six command cars, which only officers can ride in. And he ordered six command cars and he said, "From the court-martial here, what we're gonna do is, they get into the command cars, they'll be taken to the officer's quarters and they can take hot water showers there and we're gonna feed 'em at the officer's quarters. And so they got, not regular GIs food is pretty good at the officer's quarters and so they, but they were very, very happy and that it wasn't something that they were being, trying to be mean to them.

But this major in the court-martial, the colonel at the court-martial wanted me to go out of my way to explain to them that they want them to be real, real, treated as real Japanese and they're proud that they're Japanese and he said, "I don't blame 'em for, if they did stick up for Japan." But an example, he said, "Min, I'm from the East Coast and I understand that you're from the Seattle, Washington area." But he said, "Take for example," he said, "the college I went to playing football at El Paso here, and University of Washington playing football here." He says, "You're bound to stick up for University of Washington." He said, "I would stick up for the university that I came from. And so there's no difference," and he says, "I want you to relay to these people that if they respect Japan and are a hundred percent for Japan, hundred percent for them, they should do that. And this example I gave you is what I want you to really get across to them. So, tell 'em to feel, relax and the situation is bad, but not because they want it to be, it's circumstances." And so he went out of his way to, the court-martial went out of his way to ask me to put the Issei at ease on that basis. And so, I was very pleased that it turned out that way. And so...

TK: And what was the outcome of the court-martial, do you know?

MT: The general court-martial is, like I mentioned, when the, all the Isseis were lined up four abreast and they marched to camp, they'd already gone into camp and they didn't, they didn't know nothing about the situation. But I understand, later, through the (witnesses) that what they found out, that the Issei -- well, let's... I explain it this way. One of the Issei was from Terminal Island where they all have the Japanese fishing boat. So, when December 7th came and the United States, the FBI were picking, had already got the records of all the Isseis and, in fact, the Niseis -- we didn't know at that time, but they, for several years before that they had already, whether they knew they were gonna have war with Japan or not, they had all the record of the Isseis and the Niseis. But this, one Issei was a fisherman at Terminal Island and on a fishing boat and, but the Japanese fishermen there, all the Nisei fishing boat owners had radios. And so they were immediately, the FBI went to Terminal Island to pick these people up first. But this Issei, particular Issei that I'm talking about was a fisherman during the weekday -- on the weekend he was a Nihon gakko no sensei and taught Japanese language school to all the kids that were there. But during the weekday he was a fisherman and somehow he was on, during his fishing work, he fell between two boats and he crushed his back and he was a complete hunchback because, as a result of his crushed back. And so the, so when the FBI came and picked up the rest of the Issei he asked the, and begged the FBI (...), "Please take me with these other Isseis because I don't have a wife, I don't have any children, I don't have any relatives, I'm alone and I will never know how to have a, get a living on that basis." So, they agreed and they took him along with them.

The other Issei was ill because he had been tubercular for about ten years and was in a weakened condition and between getting well and ill he was able to hang on that long. But, both of these witnesses were trying to say that... both, the MPs tried to say that the Isseis tried to run away and so the only thing they had to, they could do was to shoot and kill 'em, they had orders that if anybody of this group, when they first came there, that the orders were to the MP was if anybody tries to escape, to shoot and kill 'em. And so these, both of these MPs said that they tried to get away and they shot and killed 'em right there. And so, but the Isseis swear that both of em are very ill and they wouldn't have run away. But they all went into the camp already and entered the camp and nobody heard the shots and so, there's no way that the defense attorney could prove that both of these people did not attempt to run away. So...

<End Segment 29> - Copyright © 2003 Densho. All Rights Reserved.