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AI: Well, so during the last year, what was in your mind? What were you thinking about? Clearly the camp was winding down, it was going to come to an end. Had you begun making plans for additional work?

HM: No. We were so preoccupied with fulfilling our obligations on the faculty, and being a part of the community. Now, I speak for myself, but I think this was pretty well true of the high school teachers. At least the -- shall I say -- more competent ones. That that just took all of our energies. And we were out there in the desert, we'd lost -- I had lost contact with my professional ties that would have helped me get another job. And it turned out that Elmer Smith, the Community Analyst and I were hired -- I'm not sure whether it was the YWCA or what group it was that hired us. But we were in Seattle for Oct-, November and December, conducting a study of the problems of the relocating Nisei. And I lived at the YWCA for those two months.

AI: So you had left Minidoka in October?

HM: October.

AI: And then moved to Seattle, and then worked with Elmer on this study.

HM: Yes, yes.

AI: What, now that must have been very interesting.

HM: It was. Our main job was to help the Nisei find one another, and we had to find them, so we had lots of social activities, and we were always on the lookout for new names and addresses. And much to everyone's surprise, they didn't live where they used to live but they lived close by, and we brought people together who were neighbors and didn't know it. And we reported on the difficulties of getting together. But mainly, I think our function turned out to be helping them find one another.

AI: Well, I'm sure that part must have brought a great deal of joy to people.

HM: Yes, it did.

AI: Reconnecting.

HM: One of the things which impressed me no end, we had a group, at best you could call them pre-delinquents. But they were youngsters that very easily could have gotten into trouble, but Elmer was sort of the Pied Piper of the pre-delinquent set. He had, he was a role model. And so during our two months in Seattle, we went to a Parent-Teachers Association at Bailey Gatzert Elementary School, where many of the students had gone. And we ran into several of our pre-delinquents. And we said, "Well, what are you doing here?" "Well, we just wanted to check on how our younger boys and girls were doing. We didn't want them to get into any trouble the way we did." And so they were very protective of the next generation, to see that they should be brought up correctly.

AI: Well, that is so interesting. And I'm wondering, also, what some other impressions you had in those months. It was November, December, and this is still quite recently after the end of the war, what was the nature of the, the atmosphere, I guess, of Seattle, toward these returning Japanese Americans?

HM: I can't speak to that directly, but I do know that there was a couple who fancied themselves as sort of sponsors of the Nisei. And they heard about Elmer and me coming into town, and were very suspicious of us, reported us, I think, to Naval Intelligence. It was some military intelligence group, and Elmer told me that we were reported and being investigated to make sure that we were all right. [Laughs] But I had no contacts... I had very little contact with the people at the YWCA. It was mostly Elmer and the Nisei who would drop in to our office, and the gatherings that we organized. So I can't speak for that. I do know that in comparison to the students, or the, my students, who went to eastern places to relocate, those who returned directly to the Northwest... now, the girls tended to get jobs as secretaries and nurses and things like that, but the fellows tended to go back to their old jobs in produce markets. And that created a gap where the girls were more successful and a little higher occupational status. And there was a mismatch with the fellows. Now, the ones who went east went into all sorts of callings, but generally, there was more equality in the occupational status between the fellows and the girls. And I didn't hear any comparable problems with those who went first to the East Coast. Although several of them finally wound up back in the Northwest.

AI: That's a very interesting comparison to make. Well, now -- oh, please, go on.

HM: Well, I was going to tell you about a student -- and I am sorry to say I cannot find his name in the high school annual -- but I got acquainted with him. He was a leader -- and I was under the impression he was president of the student council or president of the class or something. A very, all-American type of kid. And they had, his group was called up in the draft shortly after graduation. And everyone was surprised to hear that this fellow had refused the draft. Couldn't believe it. So soon after he was carted off to Gem County jail in Boise, I went up to Boise to see him in the hopes that I could persuade him. And he said, "Look, there are two children in my family. My younger sister is mentally retarded, my parents depend upon me to look after her when they are gone. My parents are thoroughly convinced that Japan is winning the war and will soon be occupying Seattle, and 'anything that you do to cooperate with the United States will reflect badly on us. And we need you to take care of your sister.'" Well, we sat there with tears running down our cheeks. I couldn't figure out any alternative and neither could he. The wonderful thing -- I had expected the Gem County jail to be a forbidding place, and it turned out to be rather informal with a sort of fatherly warden. I told him who I was and what I'd come for. "Oh fine. Now you can sit right here in my office and talk as long as you want." And we talked, and finally came to the conclusion that he would, the student was doing what he felt best, and I could understand. So then when Elmer and I went up to Seattle, I went out to McNeil Island to visit. And he greeted me, "Ms. Amerman, don't you worry about me. I've discovered the library, and I'm reading." And he was getting a self-education in the library, and just getting along fine. Well, he returned to a rural town in Oregon, which had a very bad reputation. They wouldn't even sell a newspaper to a decorated Nisei serviceman in uniform. And you can imagine how they would treat him. Plus, the Nisei veterans boycotted him because he'd refused the draft. And I understood that finally it got to him and he committed suicide. So I did hear about that side of the story as well.

AI: How very, very sad. So many situations came out of that...

HM: I think you can understand why I feel those three years were the most significant in my life.

AI: But they weren't, by any means, all of the significant things that you did. Because after that, you went on.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2003 Densho. All Rights Reserved.