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AI: Well, now, you had mentioned that over time, at the relocation center, that there had been some changes, and of course, in '43, after the questionnaire had been filled out for registration and leave clearance, then many families did receive permission to relocate outside the camp. Also, as you already mentioned, some students were accepted to colleges and were able to leave later on in 1943. So, could you tell a little bit about the changing nature of, of the community within Minidoka as these changes took place?

HM: Well, I think, as I look back on it, that probably the changes started at the top when Milton Eisenhower left as director and was succeeded by... now I've forgotten his name (Dillon Meyer). Anyhow, the new director was committed from the very beginning that the relocation centers should not become a second order of Indian reservations. And he had a long-term strategy. The first was the loyalty checks, so that people of suspected loyalty were confined to Tule Lake, and people of presumed loyalty were distributed to the other projects. Then the next big step was to open the draft. So they started out with volunteering for the 442nd or the military intelligence. (Finally, the draft was opened and then the closure of the West Coast was lifted.)

And then, in the spring of '42 -- no, '43, they began to have the young people, the college-age people and the young adults began going out. And then, over the second and third years, the pressures to relocate became stronger and stronger until the final year, I would say the, probably the last six months, each family was assigned a date for them to leave. And the pressures became really intense. I remember being impressed hearing about fourteen-, fifteen-year-old boys being put on the train to Chicago by themselves to go out and find housing for the family, a job for their non-English speaking father. They would be met by WRA field staff, shepherded around Chicago, make the proper contacts, go back and report to their family what they had found and where the family was going to go. And in the summer, I heard stories that when a family either couldn't or wouldn't, and there were many by that time. Mainly they were large families or elderly or handicapped people in some way, who just simply couldn't cope. And if they had not made their preparations the morning of the day that they were assigned to leave, a crew from the project would appear at their apartment with cartons, pack up everything, and they would be bussed to the train station, sent back to the point of origin. And I heard that there were, they'd be handed, the head of the family would get an envelope with money for expenses for the trip -- I don't know how much it was, but probably not much -- and their train ticket, and they were off. And I was told that some people would get on the train, climb up the stairs to the platform on one side, and then go down on the other. The project got wise to that, so they had people stationed on the other side of the train to shush the people back onto the train to be sure that they went back to the West Coast. And those were not the most pleasant stories I heard.

AI: Also you had mentioned that there was not only a change in policy from the very top regarding relocation out of camps, but that within Minidoka, there was also some change in administration.

HM: Yes. After the first year of school -- so this would be in, say, September of '43 -- a number of the top level people who had been very humane and concerned with the project people's welfare and so on, they began leaving for other callings. Suddenly word came down from the director, "The appointed staff shall have, shall not fraternize with the residents." Well, in the first year, the Director of Community Services had told the teachers, "Now, look, don't try to make your own community up there on administration hill. I expect each one of you to have at least one community-wide activity. This is your home. You're part of Minidoka." So most of us did. I joined the mass choir, and several of us joined churches. And over the year, of course, we made friends. Now we were forbidden to fraternize. You couldn't just turn it off like that, so we had to be very circumspect. And during that year, under Jerry Light's leadership, things went along pretty well in the school, but then Mr. Light and Mr. Davidson, the head of agriculture, were considered to be too friendly. And a whole new ballgame started with the departure of Mr. Light (in the summer of 1944). Also, a number of the teachers left. You know, this was pretty difficult on them and their families. And so I believe there were only three of us who survived for three years in the faculty, and it got harder and harder to get teachers and some of them were not very well-qualified, and morale began going down. Not only because of the policies about relations between staff and residents, but also the pressure on the residents to relocate. So that last year was one of tension.

AI: That sounds difficult.

HM: But that was the way it was.

<End Segment 13> - Copyright © 2003 Densho. All Rights Reserved.