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AI: Well, and so now this period of -- it's the Depression. And as you mentioned, so many families were having hardships, and especially yours, without your father. Could you tell me more about... in your particular grade school, would you say that most of the children were families, were from families having hardships during the Depression?

RC: Yes, yes.

AI: And approximately, what proportion would you say were Caucasian and Japanese American or other ethnicities?

RC: There was Little Italy in the area. The Japanese, I think we would have maybe three or four Japanese youngsters in each class. (...) The classes were almost in the same room all day. We would go to a science class, or an art class, or music class, maybe two or three times a week. Otherwise, we were in the same (room as)... the teacher had us for a number of subjects. They were very, very well-trained. They were good teachers. You couldn't ask for anything better. And as a group of children, there were (few) conflicts once in a while. The Italians are rather emotional -- [laughs] -- and they'd get angry about things. Kids being what they were, they might use the "Dago" word, and that was an insult, you see, and there would be little problems on the way home. And it always got back to the principal. The principal always had to deal with it, and he was very good at it. He knew how to handle kids.

AI: Well, I'm wondering, were there very many Mexican Americans --

RC: No.

AI: -- in your school at that time?

RC: No.

AI: None?

RC: No, no. That came later.

AI: I see. So at that time, the Japanese Americans were pretty much the only other minority group at that time?

RC: (Yes).

AI: Did you --

RC: There were some Chinese. (...) They were, we had two or three, if I recall correctly, very sweet youngsters. But they lived in the lower part of town. And many of the Japanese lived in the lower part of town, in the old Sacramento area, along (...) the river. When the war came along they lost their properties downtown. They were rather valuable by that time, you see. There had to be some changes made so that they could recoup, finances, and things worked out better for them that way.

AI: Well, during this period, before the war, though, I wanted to ask, is there... let me see, maybe I should put it this way: as a child, growing up, when did you first become aware of the racial difference and become aware of Japanese Americans as a different race?

RC: My mother, being German, and having gone through the experience in Cleveland, where they lived in Germantown in Cleveland, experienced the alienations that took place all over the country by all races that came from overseas. And she would talk to us about it. And she was very, she was a very loving mother. We adored her. She had the capacity to explain to us what it meant to be human and love no matter what people looked like, what was wrong with them, what their nationality was, what their racial characteristics were, the human being inside was the most important thing. And that was the way my twin and I were raised. My father basically was responsible for my two older brothers and my mother raised my twin and me. And that, my twin sister and I were very, very... I guess very democratic, small "d." Well, that was the way we were raised, and we loved all people.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 2003 Densho. All Rights Reserved.