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AI: I'm wondering, also, about the response you got when the paintings were shown up here in the Seattle, in Seattle. Response, if any, that you got from Japanese Americans up here?

RS: The response was, was good. I was quite pleased. And, of course, having never done paintings of that sort before, I mean, to hear the kinds of things that were being said, were very different than other shows that I had had up in this area, where generally had to do with the sort of appearance of the work. And all of a sudden there were people that were relating to it on a deeper, more personal level. And so that, of course, was very, very different. And you have to remember, too, that the work didn't look like that. But despite that, I don't know if they were starved for that kind of theme or issue or whatever, but I really felt for the first time that I was doing work that was for other people, other than myself.

I think the Japanese community maybe responded a little differently. For example, the "No-No Boy" painting was purchased by the Bank of Tokyo. And in order for the sale to be finished, it had to gain approval by all of the various offices, which meant the Seattle office and the San Francisco office. But the third office was the office in Japan. And when it got back there and they found out what the painting was about, they nixed the sale. And to Kiku's memory, it was the first time in her memory that she could ever remember the main office ever vetoing something. So there was no doubt as to why they did that. They didn't want a painting that recalled that particular time period hanging in one of their banks. And shortly after that, I had two shows in Japan. And it's probably worth noting that both of them were print shows. One was in Tokyo, and one was in Kyoto. And the one in Tokyo sold heavily, but I discovered that not one painting was sold to a Japanese. And the gallery was located in Kasumigaseki, which is where all of the embassies are. So the work went all over the world, but not one piece stayed in Japan. Because the Japanese couldn't figure out what I was doing, except kind of blasphemizing their national treasures. And what I did was I sort of reinforced the stereotype that they had as to what a Sansei was, and what little regard Sanseis had for the national treasures of Japan.

So the show, after that, went to Kyoto, which, of course, is real conservative parts of Japan. And again, there was all this controversy, and there was even a bus that was chartered that came from Osaka to see this show by this crazy American Sansei. And it was on TV and everything else. But not one piece sold in Kyoto. But the gallery owner said that they had never had a crowd like that before. But generally speaking, the show was panned. No one seemed to understand it. Nowhere interested in coming to grips with what it meant. So to that point -- and we're talking about the mid-'70s -- to that point, there was very little empathy there between the Japanese and my work.

AI: And what about your own experience of being a Japanese American in Japan at that time? Just as an individual?

RS: Well, I mean, it was very difficult. It was very difficult because I didn't speak Japanese. And the little Japanese that I could speak, the little phrases or whatever, might suggest to someone that I was talking to that I did speak Japanese, and then they would respond in Japanese, and then I was in trouble, because it was, I could under-, my vocabulary was so limited, and my ability to speak was so limited. And, at this point, I had a Caucasian girlfriend that spoke no Japanese, obviously, and it became much easier for her to ask the questions in English, and to have them struggle with their English to, to talk to her rather than for me to go up there and they would invariably cuss me out. I mean, I understood Japanese enough to know when I was being cussed out. And, and they would say things like, "Just because you're with this American girl, you're too good to speak English -- or, to speak Japanese." I understood that. So it was easier just to push her forward and then to pick up the few Japanese words. And, to be truthful, that's always been an issue going back to Japan. It's been something that I haven't really looked forward to. It's just that today, it's less of an, far less of an issue than it was before, because they're so much more used to having Japanese Americans come to Japan that are not equipped to speak the language. Back then... the first time I went was before I went to Korea. And came back from Korea in 1962, and '63. And, but I think the fact that I had an American military uniform sort of exempted me from some of those questions.

<End Segment 51> - Copyright © 2003 Densho. All Rights Reserved.