<Begin Segment 39>

AI: Well, excuse me, could you tell us about how it came about that you went to Kansas? Because you really, as you had just said --

RS: Yeah.

AI: -- you weren't planning to, you weren't thinking about Kansas.

RS: The sort of fashion for all the graduate students at the time was to send out a blanket letter applying for jobs everywhere. I mean, now, one only applies when one hears that there's an opening. And since there aren't too many, you might only apply to a dozen schools that advertise openings and things are a lot more organized, but, on a national level. But back then we just looked at the college art directory and just sort of applied this place and typed it out, this place, typed it, you know. And on an average --

MT: Excuse me, did you send your slides with the letter, or just a letter?

RS: No, what we did was... what I did at least, several of us, was, we printed up resumes and put paintings at the top so that, because we knew that most schools were gonna have an idea of what they were looking for and would either respond to your work in some way, or most likely not. And we didn't wanna go through all of these false hopes and expectations so we said well, this is what it looks like. So those that, I think I had fifty -- I sent out three hundred of those letters, is what I started to say. And I had a total of fifty schools ask for slides. And so I thought I had a shot, because they knew what my work looked like. And then, the long and the short of is, I think out of fifty I had, I had maybe a dozen interviews, and I think I was offered seven jobs. I mean, there were jobs available back then. But, towards the end of that whole search process -- well, the first person that called me was Williams College in Massachusetts. And I didn't even know Williams had an art program. I knew it was this very sort of prestigious, sort of almost Ivy League school. And they called up and said, "You're one of ten finalists. And we need more information," which I sent. And then about a month later -- and this is still before I heard anything from any other school -- I was getting a little worried because I didn't know what the job prospects were and whether a bird in the hand, whatever. And they said, "You're one of two finalists. And we want you to come out. And we want you to bring your wife." And I looked on the map and I saw it was in the Berkshires, in (Williamstown), Massachusetts. And so I told Bea, I says, "I'm going to this place called Williams College, and they want you to go."

So we got in the car and we drove there. And as expected, it was this ivy-covered, very, very academic, there was only one other studio person, and five art historians, and then I, of course, found out this is, incredible school, liberal arts college. But as soon as we hit the doorsteps they took Bea away. And she was expected to go through her own interview process with the wives. So she went away to this tea party and I didn't see her until the end of the day and she was very upset. And I was run through the whole mill. And by afternoon I'd decided, "This is not for me. Despite the fact that this may be the only job I'm offered, no way." And then when I met up with Bea and we get in the car to leave, she expressed total displeasure about the way she was treated, questions she was asked, and all that. And this whole idea of them interviewing the spouse... I mean, at that point, before there was this sort of total awakening towards how wrong something like that is. I mean, we were both upset by it, and both agreed that this was not for us. And, and for the first time, really felt like we were on the outside of the East Coast tradition, that maybe this is what they all do.

<End Segment 39> - Copyright © 2003 Densho. All Rights Reserved.