<Begin Segment 45>

MC: So we're sort of reaching the end now, I think, of our interview...

TI: Yeah, I actually, I wanted to kind of finish up with some of your, again, reflections personally. And Dale, you're a very positive person, and you've talked about, in your reflections, the positive things that have happened to you, and the people that worked with it. But you put an incredible amount of time, your personal time into this. And I was wondering, were there sacrifices that you had to make in your personal life or your career to do what you do, and what are those things?

DM: You know, it's hard to define them as sacrifices. I mean, we didn't make very much money when we were doing these cases but to me, that wasn't really a sacrifice because we had enough to eat and we were able to pay the rent. Our careers probably didn't develop as fast 'cause we spent so much time on these cases, but on the other hand these cases gave back to us in so many other ways. I mean, how much do you pay for fulfillment of the soul? That's, you can't put a price on that. So I guess I don't even consider that as a sacrifice. And I'm honestly trying to figure something negative about this, that occurred because of this. I think one thing that happened is that we get tons of calls from people who want us to take the, their landmark case that involves them personally for free because we must make our living doing free cases, 'cause we did Korematsu. So we get a lot of flakoes calling us up because a lot of those are really flaky kind of cases. Or they usually send us letters saying, "You're the only one who could handle this type of case," or... [laughs] you see this kind of pattern repeated. But that's a small price to pay. Yeah, if you think about it, yeah, I did probably, I could have made more money, I could have gotten a nicer car earlier, I could have got better clothes, but those things were just not so significant, I guess, at the time, and things turned out pretty well as it is. And I think it's maybe because I am a positive person. I do look for the positive side of things.

[Interruption]

TI: Okay, so, to end this interview, Dale, is there anything that you'd like to end with for this interview?

DM: One thing I've learned about these cases -- and it's not just these cases, but I think it's from, from my experience -- is the importance of history. I've always felt that people need to understand history not only just to understand the present and the future, but it helps place them in the flow of history. Helps them determine what their identity is. And the analogy I would use is like history is like, learning history is like climbing a mountain, for Asian Pacific Americans by getting, when you get halfway up the mountain you could look down and look back and you could see the paths blazed by African Americans and Latino and Latina Americans, Native Americans who took this inspired journey to civil rights, and led the path up that mountain for Asian Pacific Americans to follow. And to them we owe a debt, and that's a debt we know we owe because we know history. But from halfway up the mountain, you can also look up and see how far, how much further you have to go and that's why history provides you with that guide to be able to look up and know that, okay, we have not reached the mountaintop of equality. There's still a way to go but to understand that there are people traveling the same path with us is something that history gives us and something that we should know forever because it then not only inspires us but helps us develop practical political strategy.

I feel like if you could place yourself in that flow of history, see what has happened before you, where your parents and grandparents have done, I think you're gonna better not only understand yourself but you're gonna understand that you're part, not of just -- you're not just an individual alone, you're part of an evolving, developing, growing, community. And the more you understand that, you understand that you gain strengths that you wouldn't have if you didn't understand your part in that flow of history, as I call it.

So I think I would end with people, with, to admonish people or hope that people understand that, how important history is. Because in your own history somewhere, someone has done something for you to allow you to get to this point. And if you understand that's where you are, then you understand that you have a parallel obligation to help somebody who comes after you and I think, to me, that's the symmetry. It's kind of closing the loop of history and, I don't want to get too religious or spiritual about this, but it creates a symmetry that seems to at least make me feel much more at peace, knowing that someone has helped me before, many people have helped me before. And by helping people who come after me, I feel not just a kinship to my past but I feel a relationship to my future and it makes me feel much, much stronger and much more whole.

TI: Great, thank you.

<End Segment 45> - Copyright © 2003 Densho. All Rights Reserved.