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MC: And your public education efforts have led to, for example, you being chair of the, the Civil Liberties Public Education Fund, which is the fund that Congress created at the same time that it created the reparations funding, right?

DM: Correct.

MC: So, what were some of the highlights of being chair of that group? What kinds of things did you do and how do you feel that you've furthered public education on this particular historical episode?

DM: As chair, you came in with a group of strangers -- although some of us knew each other, some of 'em were my clients, like Don Nakanishi and friends like Peggy Nagae. And we came together, but we had two years to mold a group, set up a whole administrative framework, open an office, get supplies, make up a criteria, create a forum, circulate it to the public, get applications, make judgments and give money out. It was a really difficult, difficult task. And to the degree that we were able to just pull that off I was really proud. I thought we had a terrific group. It felt like the Korematsu team again because everybody, everybody was along with the program and we got work done fast, and I think we did really quality work. And Dale Shimasaki and some of the, and Martha Watanabe in D.C. also were our staff and did a good job. I think the whole point of what we were trying to do with Korematsu, not the whole point but a major point of that and the redress movement was public education. So this is a wonderful thing to be able to give money away to great groups like the Densho Project and Race, Rights and Reparation -- [laughs] -- I'm sorry. I had to put that in. I thought it was a great, it was a great honor again to be able to give money away to people that were serious about trying to make this country remember its mistake about what it did in the internment of Japanese Americans. And to the degree that we gave all the money away, and I think we gave 'em pretty much to really good groups. I mean, there were a couple exceptions, people didn't get their projects done, but very few. I think that was -- just can say partially successful. I don't think we had enough money to be really successful. I don't think we had enough time to be really successful. I think you needed that original fifty million to be able to reach in the farthest corners of this country to get to North Carolina and teach a Congressman Coble that his remarks are ignorant and misinformed, or at least the people of that state so they won't vote him into office anymore. But we didn't have enough money and time. So I still think there's a lot of work to do, but I think under the circumstances we were able to award grants to good people and good groups who have done really wonderful things.

MC: I think one of the more poignant moments in a meeting that I attended of all the grant recipients was when some third grade students in San Francisco were arguing, doing debates about the constitutionality of the internment and that sort of original analysis of the Bill of Rights that you had done way back in the '70s were things that they were actually debating amongst themselves, these eighth grade -- eight-year-old students.

DM: That's great. It's funny, 'cause I didn't go to that conference. I tend to, I only went off and on because I had work to do and I find that once I complete a project I just move on and the results take care of themselves, and sometimes I think I feel I missed out. That was, I should have been there to see what results were going on but I figured the results would take care of themselves. I got other stuff, I gotta go on to my next job, my next project. But I think sometimes that's very short-sighted. I think that was true in that case. Just like in the Korematsu case, the coram nobis cases, one of our main goals was after we finished the litigation was to get the decisions published or known by every constitutional law professor in the country. We were gonna make a list and send it out. But we just ran out of gas. And so I moved on to my next project and that thing languished until Race Rights and Reparation was published which was exactly what we wanted it to do, to be accessible to con. law and other law professors so that they would teach the second Korematsu case and the second Hirabayashi case.

<End Segment 43> - Copyright © 2003 Densho. All Rights Reserved.