Densho Digital Archive
Densho Visual History Collection
Title: Seichi Hayashida Interview
Narrator: Seichi Hayashida
Interviewers: Alice Ito (primary), Sheri Nakashima (secondary)
Location: Seattle, Washington
Date: August 21, 1997
Densho ID: denshovh-hseichi-01-0030

<Begin Segment 30>

SN: Now, Alice had earlier asked you about your affiliation with the Japanese American Citizen's League before the war, and you had mentioned earlier during a previous interview that, that people who maybe supported the JACL or were active in it, that maybe they had some problems at the Tule Lake.

SH: They did.

SN: Can you go into, can you give me a couple of examples of what happened to you?

SH: I didn't have anything happen to me, but we did have a meeting one night, of former chapter presidents, chapter officers, like I said earlier, I don't remember how they got my name, I didn't ask. But we had a meeting in the evening, and word got out about it, this was in Tule Lake. And the next morning or the next night, there was some, I wouldn't say, I don't know where they were from, but I, heard that they were out looking for JACL leaders. They heard about the meeting that we had. They were gonna beat up on 'em. And these were actually anti-American, pro-Japanese, non-JACL'ers. I heard that they were from the Sacramento area, or people from Sacramento were in there. I heard this, I'm not sure it's positive truth, but I can imagine it would be true, that they were anti-JACL. Anyone that was associated with the JACL, you didn't go bragging about it in Tule Lake. And I know that two former, or at the time, current, JACL national presidents were transferred from there right away, the next day, after we had this meeting. They didn't bother me. But I was, I knew about it. They told me to come to a certain block -- anyone that was connected with the JACL. At that time I happened to be first vice president of the chapter that we had hurriedly formed in Bellevue. So then I left shortly after that. They didn't have any trouble, but they would have, if they'd have kept it up. So I didn't go into a group of people that I didn't know and say I was a JACL'er. Those people I knew, it was okay.

JACL got blamed, some of these people, this happened because they blamed the JACL for the, our incarceration. They said, "You weren't..." Well, we weren't strong enough because everybody wasn't a member, we were, the JACL wasn't in operation that long. But those that didn't like JACL and didn't agree said, well, not much of an organization, didn't do any good, we got put into camp. And that was one of the reasons why they blamed the JACL for it, and there was no way you could blame the JACL, or you could blame any one single person or group. There was no way you could convince DeWitt that we wouldn't be no problem. He was such a racist that he used the term, "Once a Jap, always a Jap." So, there was no way, but the JACL did a lot of good for the welfare of all people of Japanese ancestry... I firmly believe that, and I've been a member ever since 1948, continuous, held many offices, because I couldn't turn 'em down if they asked me to be this and that, because I believed in it, you see.

Today, I don't think it's quite as prominent, but they keep it up. The older ones that are dying off, that were members are not being replaced as much, I don't think, as fast as they are passing on. Most of the Sansei, Yonsei now say, "Well, now we don't need it." They say that because they are well-accepted, but if they had, had experienced the anti-Japanese feelings that we did, they wouldn't be saying that. But thanks to the national JACL over the past fifty years, we made this happen. We publicized, and preached -- our parents preached their younger, the Sanseis -- to be good citizens, and help them do that so they don't get into trouble. And that's one reason why we don't have to have it so much. But if it wasn't for the JACL in the years of the war started, we would have been in bad trouble. That's my opinion. I have been asked by federal judges, county judges, "How come you don't have any Japanese parentage kids in jail?" I always say, "That's easy." He said, "How come it's easy?" I said, "We're taught that from when we're kids, never to go and do anything that gets you in trouble, do anything to bring shame to your family name. Don't commit any crimes, you know, even little petty crimes." So I said, "You won't find any Japanese kids in your jails." And he said, "No, we don't have a Japanese name on the Idaho State Prison roles, in our county, never." And I said, "That's the reason why." He said, "Well, I can see why. That's very good. You never see Japanese get in trouble." I said, I got a speeding ticket and paid a couple of fines, but no robbery, no murder, that kind of stuff. And so the Japanese, in that part of the country where I come from, from Ontario area and Idaho, we're all respected by the law enforcement agencies, because we never get in trouble. Never... not a single case. Some of the areas in the bigger cities can't say that and can't help it. The more people there is the more chances of that happening. If you say... lot of the people out there the Caucasian community doesn't know what JACL is, but every chance I get, I tell them what it means, 'cause you use the abbreviation. And some of them say, "Why put that Japanese in there? You're American citizens." And I said, "Well, it's something that I carried on, kinda hard to drop." But, they all say it's a good organization, as far as that goes. I have, I have members that are hakujin that want to belong, and we sure don't refuse 'em.

[Interruption]

SN: Well, it sounds like, obviously you're a very proud member of the JACL, and it sounds like you're very proud to be a part of that organization during your stay at Tule Lake. So, I could imagine it was very difficult for you to have to deal with how people looked upon you. You indicated earlier that you couldn't tell people that you were part of that organization, unless, of course, they knew you were already and then you might talk about it.

SH: Uh-huh.

SN: In what other ways did you have to change your behavior besides that?

SH: Change behavior, why?

SN: Yeah, I mean, because you were saying that you couldn't talk about your JACL affiliation because there was some anti-JACL sentiment within Tule Lake. Did you have to change your behavior in any other way?

SH: No. The anti-JACL feeling was not from non-JACL or non-Japanese, it was from Japanese. And, some of them blamed it for some of the troubles and blamed it for evacuation. They said, "Well, if it was worth anything we wouldn't have been evacuated." I said, "Nobody could have been. The only one who could've prevented evacuation was the president, or Congress." And it's not fair to blame the JACL. The JACL did everything they could, to, but it was just, there was so much fear and panic that the American public... if it wasn't for the JACL in asking everybody to -- all the JACL members and all the Japanese Americans -- to obey the laws and cooperate, there would have been some trouble. Now, I'm sure there would have been some trouble. But there was enough level-headed leaders to say, to go ahead and follow the government orders, and cooperate and give 'em the least trouble you can. And that would be one way of helping the war effort. They wouldn't have to have a thousand, two thousand soldiers to watch over a group of people... there was 100,000 at the time of evacuation. And let's do our part by not giving the government any trouble and obey their rules and laws, and if we have to evacuate, go peacefully without giving them any trouble. That would be the best way to prove our loyalty. That was the way.

SN: Now, you indicated that if it were not for the JACL, there would have been trouble. So obviously, you have some feelings as to what could have happened.

SH: Myself, this is my personal feeling, there would have been some people in, in isolated places that would've probably... well there was, there already have cases where some of the farms were burned in California. There was none in Idaho that I had heard of. But some guys were really anti-Japanese and set fire to, to some of the farm buildings to try to get 'em to leave... when they were trying to stay, and try to get 'em out of the community, this had happened. The more, better-known you were, not by Japanese but by the Caucasian population, the less trouble you had.

<End Segment 30> - Copyright © 1997 Densho. All Rights Reserved.