Densho Digital Archive - Mitsuye May Yamada - Joe Yasutake - Tosh Yasutake Interview (denshovh-ymitsuye

<Begin Segment 26>

AI: Well, and then another interesting part of that is that you were referred to as Amerika-no ojosan. American girl. What was that like for you, or either of you, you too, Tosh, to be in Japan and to be, by some people, identified as the Americans.

TY: Yeah.

MY: Yeah.

AI: Did that cause any shift or change in your self-image? Or the way you felt about yourself?

TY: Well, not in the younger days, but I think it did sort of, made me uncomfortable in later life when I went back in the '80s. Beginning of '80 and the beginning of, late '70s and '80s when I was in Japan. They just treated me special. I mean, I was, I felt like I was nobody special, but they treated you as such. And I felt very uncomfortable.

AI: In later days.

TY: I didn't quite, I didn't quite know how to handle it, really. And I had some problem with it.

AI: But as a child?

TY: No, as a child, I don't remember anything about as a child, no.

AI: And what about you, May, as a child?

MY: Well, I think that, because I went to school --

TY: Yeah, school, that made a difference.

MY: -- and that made a difference. And also, in my language, with my language I think that was a real problem in speaking, for one thing.

JY: Did kids tease you, or anything?

MY: Yeah, they did. Well, they didn't -- the girls were too polite. You know, they didn't tease me, but they would giggle. When I say something, "Tee hee hee," they would giggle. And so I knew that I said something, something wrong.

TY: Yeah, but among our relatives, when we were going, went to relatives' families, I don't recall any problems. Right?

MY: No, they were very good. They were very, very good. And they were very respectful of us. In deference to our dad, I think, they treated us very, very well. And I don't remember any incidents where, where -- I felt different. And as a, I remember, oh yeah, I remember, I do remember asking my cousin, Fumiko, she was a little bit older than I -- because I told Mom, "Everybody thinks I'm Amerika no ojosan, so it must be my clothes that I'm wearing." Because these clothes are American clothes? And so Mom took me to the store and then, and bought me a pair of shoes, because they had different kind of shoes. They had very square-toe, I don't remember the --

TY: Oh. Style? You mean different style?

MY: Yeah. They were kind of clunky-looking shoes that they had. And so they dressed me completely in Japanese-bought, Japanese-bought Western clothes. And then they, and then they still called me Amerika no ojosan. So I remember asking my cousin, "What's so different?" And then she said, "Oh, Mitsu-san, it's because of the way you walk."

TY: Yeah, I was just going to say, I remember --

MY: She said, "You walk," she said, "Nihon no onna no hito wa ne, chiisai... you have to walk in little steps. And you walk like this." And then I was also, walked with my toes out. I wasn't pigeon-, there was one thing that Mom was always criticizing me for, is I walk... and she said that, that was kind of interesting observation to me, Fumiko made, she said, "You look different, because the way you walk."

TY: Well, as I say, in the later years when I was in Japan, I was, that's the first thing they told me. "One difference is, you dress differently, and you walk differently." And they made a point of that, that -- so I said, because I told them, "Well, what if I just buy Japanese clothes and put it on?" Said, "It won't make any difference, there. They know that you came from the States." [Laughs]

JY: Well, as soon as you open your mouth they know, too. [Laughs]

MY: When you were a boy? Or when you were an adult?

TY: No, no, no. Later, as an adult, yeah.

MY: Oh.

TY: Because I don't remember anything about when I was a kid.

MY: That's kind of interesting with a, the man. I thought it was because I was a girl.

TY: No, I think men, well, I think --

MY: That I was supposed to walk with very dainty --

TY: Very timidly.

JY: Well, I think it's more exaggerated with women, with, being a girl.

TY: Yeah, I would guess that.

MY: Yeah.

JY: I, I don't know. In the present day when you see somebody walking down the street, unless you recognize the clothes, look a little different --

MY: Yeah, but they didn't like --

JY: -- women walk the same as men.

TY: Well, we had a lot of, at the lab, we had a lot of Japanese dignitary coming to our lab. And you can tell, the way they -- when they down the hall, you could tell by --

JY: It's the same thing that she's talking about.

TY: Yeah, you can tell, you can tell --

JY: It's the same kind of shuffle, shuffle, kind of...

TY: -- the difference. You really can tell the difference.

MY: With even a man?

TY: Yeah.

MY: Oh.

JY: Oh, really? It was the men you're talking about?

TY: Yeah.

JY: Oh, I thought you were talking about women. Hmm. Maybe so.

MY: A woman. Because, I just thought the way that Fumiko, you know Fumiko, she's very soft-spoken, you know how very lady-like she is? And she said, "Mo sukoshi, johin naru ga kara shinasai." Johin is what?

JY: Dainty?

TY: Proper, properly?

MY: Dainty? Yeah, dainty. "Aru kara kata shinai ikenai." And I said, oh really? And I remember getting up and going like this. And she was so funny. She was very, "Oh ho." And she said, "Well, this kid" --

JY: Did it work?

MY: Well, I forgot. I mean, you know when you're walking, you don't try to remember every step, or trying to, where you were stepping. And so I thought, oh, well. [Laughs]