<Begin Segment 27>

AI: Well, continuing here, I did want to ask you about the, now, the findings of the Commission on Wartime Relocation and Internment of Civilians as well as some findings that came out of the research done for coram nobis cases, the reopening of the Hirabayashi, Yasui, and Korematsu cases, did come to light some government documents showing that, in fact, there was no military necessity during World War II that justified the incarceration, the mass incarceration...

BH: Yeah.

AI: ...of the people of Japanese ancestry. And what was your reaction to hearing this, this news, these findings?

BH: The, I thought the, the redress commission hearings were very interesting. But a lot of that information was known. And many of the witnesses were just telling about their own experiences, the bitterness, the injustice. It was information that had to, had come out, and I'm glad that Congress was made aware of this sort of thing. But the coram nobis cases were much more significant because it, they showed misconduct, official misconduct which affected us adversely. And this business of evidence being destroyed or suppressed was outrageous, and I'm sorry that the government decided not to challenge but to admit indirectly that they were wrong and, and reverse the, the previous convictions. If that had been allowed to go to trial and that evidence made public, it would have been much more effective.

I knew, or I had suspected a long time ago that the decision to evacuate was, was made without a great deal of thought. The records show that Biddle, the Attorney General, wanted to protest, but he deferred to Stimson, who was a senior member of the cabinet. Well, what if Stimson -- if Biddle had got up in a cabinet meeting and says, "Damn it. This is wrong." It would have caused the cabinet to do some more thinking. And when Stimson called Roos-, Roosevelt, he wanted to see Roosevelt, but Roosevelt was too preoccupied with the business of fighting a worldwide war. Stimson said, "We've, going to make the decision to move the Japanese off the West Coast. And Roosevelt's only advice was, "Well, be as reasonable as you can." That's documented. And Jesus, they're talking about the rights of 120,000 people and constitutional principles that are the basis of American democracy, and the president says, "Be as reasonable as you can." That's outrageous.

Well, in many respects, the Japanese American problem was a very minor one compared to the problems of fighting a global war. But it's deplorable that they considered it a minor issue. And the reason was that we were not integrated. Outside pressures kept us pretty well confined to our ghettos. Issei could not become citizens, and they were looked on as dusty little "Jap" farmers, most of them, and the Nisei were ten, twenty years too young. There weren't enough people who had made their way into the greater communities. There weren't enough people who could be spokesmen. There weren't enough people who could be role models. Average age was what, seventeen, eighteen? And our leaders were in their early thirties.

It couldn't happen today. Dan Inouye and all those other guys in Congress and federal judges, civic leaders. We have made a place for ourselves in American society. And that did not exist back in 1941. We were just the, oh, the little "Japs" in Little Tokyo here. And only a few people would say, "Look, these people are Americans. Born here. They have citizenship. They 're entitled to all the privileges of American citizenship." There were very few people who stuck up for us. So in that respect, the evacuation, I think, was inevitable.

AI: At that time. Now, today...

BH: Yeah.

AI: ...we, we now in the U.S. have some other groups of immigrants that are very small, ethnic minorities. Do you think that some sort of a suspension of constitutional rights could happen again, this time affecting a different small minority group in the U.S.?

BH: I can't say that it would not happen. I think it's unlikely to happen. But it could. During the Iran crisis, a lot of Americans were out to get them "damn Iranians" who were in the United States. And in Denver, there was an Iranian college student with a wife and children, and he was afraid of what was going to happen and went out and bought himself a rifle. And there were some redneck kids who says, "Let's go out and get us an Iranian." And they went to his apartment with baseball bats and broke in a window and threatened the guy, and the guy was afraid for himself and his family, and he got the rifle out and shot and killed one of the rednecks. Well, he was acquitted. Self-defense. But there are enough thoughtless people who would get all excited about something like that, and I think yes, it's possible. I don't think, although I don't think there'll be a, a far-reaching, widespread type of discrimination.

<End Segment 27> - Copyright © 2001 Densho. All Rights Reserved.