<Begin Segment 20>

AI: Well, continuing on during 1943, this was also the year where the government reversed itself on allowing Nisei into the armed services.

BH: Yes.

AI: And in fact, there came a call for the Nisei men to volunteer from the camps. And with, along with this call also came the registration or the ques -- questionnaire with the so-called "loyalty questions," the controversial ones being number 27 and 28. And I'm wondering if you would just describe for us what was the climate of the camp then as this questionnaire came out and people began having concerns about...

BH: Yeah.

AI: ...how to answer.

BH: Mostly it was a confusion that developed gradually into anger. The questions 27 and 28 seemed to assume that we had other loyalties other than to the United States. And they were very poorly phrased. Women were asked if they would be willing to bear arms and march into battle. And whoever drafted those questions was com-, was an idiot. But we were stuck with them. And I don't recall exactly what position the Sentinel took. I'm sure that we did not say that, "These guys in Washington are damn fools," and, "Don't answer the questionnaire." Maybe we didn't say anything. But I would have to double-check that. But there was no, no doubt that they had made a terrible blunder.

AI: And my understanding is that some people were very concerned that the way they answered might commit them or their families to some course of action...

BH: Yes.

AI: ...that would possibly separate the families. That, that the questionnaire had the logo of the Selective Service on it, so some people were concerned that if their boys answered "yes-yes," that might be taken to be -- interpreted as an automatic volunteering for service, that some were concerned that there then might be this separation of the families. What, do you recall, yourself, what -- how you interpreted the questions and how you decided to deal with that?

BH: Yeah. I wrote "yes-yes." I was very leery about the way the questions were phrased, but I said, "What the hell?" This -- I know I'm, I don't want to go to war right now, with my wife pregnant and a little baby, but I said, taking the broad view, "Well, yeah, I'll -- I want to demonstrate my loyalty by saying 'yes-yes.'"

AI: Did you, yourself, know families that were, had tension or conflict within them as far as the decisions on how to answer?

BH: I can't recall any specific family, but I, I do know that it existed. Many Issei fathers were very much upset when their sons answered "yes-yes." And there were others who said, "You are American. It's up to you. Do what you feel is right. And if you say 'yes-yes,' that's okay with me."

AI: Now, as a result of this, the questionnaire and the, based on the answers, of course, people were separated. And these so-called "disloyals," for those who decided to answer "no-no," were separated, not only in Heart Mountain but the other camps as well, and sent to Tule Lake. And likewise, people from Tule Lake who answered "yes-yes" and desired to move were, were sent to the other camps. What was -- can you recall your opinion at the time about the government's decision to, to label people in this way based on this questionnaire, labeling them loyal or disloyal and, and carrying out this segregation?

BH: Well, the whole idea of trying to determine loyalty by questionnaire was ridiculous. But apparently the government had, the government had no choice. It, it felt that there were elements -- as I understand it, the government felt that there were elements in the camps that were in conflict with each other which led to unrest. And the "no-nos" in many cases would have a bad influence on people who were willing to say "yes-yes." And so it felt that by -- as I understand it, they felt that by segregating the "no-nos," who had indicated in a positive way that they preferred not to be Americans, it felt that it was wiser to segregate them in their camp.

And there was a public relations component here. The government was trying to get the people out of the camps into greater America. And if he could say, if they could say, "Look, we've put the bad apples over here, and these people are fine. They're good Americans, and we'd like you to absorb them into your community." I'm sure that that had a very large part of the decision to segregate. And as long as there was this dichotomy within the camp, some very strongly anti-American and some very strongly pro-American, there was conflict.

AI: Although as you've pointed out, the questionnaire itself and the answering "no-no" did not necessarily mean a person was anti-American.

BH: No, he could be very angry about the whole thing. And he would say "no-no" because then he would say, "To hell with America," without meaning to be disloyal.

AI: I think that's a point that some people may be confused about.

BH: Yeah.

AI: That, that a person could answer "no-no" and still be a loyal American. However, in this situation...

BH: Yeah.

AI: ...as you've just described --

BH: Yeah, they had to be black or white. There was very little room for a, a neutral color.

<End Segment 20> - Copyright © 2001 Densho. All Rights Reserved.