<Begin Segment 6>

AI: Now, you were saying that at that time, as a youngster, as a teenager and a young man, you felt that your, the democratic principles that you had learned in school were not being upheld. They were being violated.

TI: Yeah.

AI: But at the same time, I'm wondering did you actually -- it sounds like you did not actually lose faith in democracy, even though you had this huge negative experience and disappointment in how they were not carried out. Can you talk a little bit about that?

TI: Well, I just wasn't that knowledgeable. Because these kinds of exclusionary practices were not taught in school, so I didn't know about it. And the constraint of functioning, behaving in public or in the home was still grounded by my cultural upbringing which said, "Grin and bear it. Don't talk back." So that's how I, obedient son, I personally behaved that way.

And once I had this unique opportunity of being involved in a broader society, broader systems, educational system or whatever -- you name it, these chances, opportunities were made to me. So then I began to have a two-faced thing about myself. In the Japanese Methodist Church, I was Tsuguo Ikeda, and in the broader society, I was Ike Ikeda. I became more assertive out there and more and more and more outspoken. My unique position gave me such unique opportunities to really be involved, be more vocal, and protest, and contrary toward my upbringing. So it was a real fight internally, trying to be Japanese American, but at the same time, be more American, too, for a change, rather than primarily Japanese. And so that struggle really helped me a great deal in saying, "Well, I'll behave a certain way in the Japanese community and another way in the (broader) community." Even though it was kind of confusing in a way, I, it helped me.

AI: So over the years in the Japanese American community, your "Tsuguo" portion of yourself came to the front --

TI: Yeah.

AI: -- and in the broader, mainstream community, the "Ike" portion of yourself came to the front?

TI: Yeah. It's unusual how labeling changes your behavior, but that's what I did. And I was very conscious the way I behaved at church. For instance, with the elder Issei, I knew my role. And whereas in the broader community, I was free as a bird, I felt. I took that kind (opportunity) to sound off or protest or speak out.

AI: Well, now, while you were going through this process yourself of developing these different sides of yourself, there was a whole new generation, the Sansei generation, growing up, the generation of your children. And I was wondering how, if you ever gave them advice or had some expectation of them or your own children or other people's children that you knew or that you worked with, whether you were hoping that they might become more the part of the mainstream and act in more of those ways or whether you were hoping they would also retain some of the Japanese culture?

TI: Well, here there's a real distinction, where you could see that, where I've said, I must be quite a great person, but I was an outstandingly lousy father in the sense that I didn't communicate regularly with all my four daughters (and be available to them). They never questioned me in saying, "Well, what was life like?" Never. And even to this day, what had gone through is -- I don't know whether it's taboo or what is -- I never asked the kids why they haven't questioned me, but it never occurred.

And so one of the guilt things I had was because I spent so much time away from the family and being involved and this and that, I felt real guilty about it. And one time not too long ago, I asked all of the girls... how I felt, that I felt guilty. I wasn't really paying that much attention to their upbringing, whereas my wife, Sumi had that major role, and I excused myself by messing around outside the home. And they all said they understood me, that, what I was doing. They didn't feel deprived. So I felt much better, although I still feel guilty of it. I didn't, I wasn't that responsible a father, putting the family first, and I put the community first and the family second.

AI: Well, I think in some ways, you are similar to a number of other husbands and fathers of your age group.

TI: That's too bad. [Laughs]

AI: That there were many expectations for people in your position.

<End Segment 6> - Copyright © 2000 Densho. All Rights Reserved.