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AI: Well, I also wanted to again, going back a bit more in time back to when you started with Atlantic Street Center. And into the early '60s, you were also very involved with United Way, which at that time was called the United Good Neighbors.

TI: Yes.

AI: And Atlantic Street Center was a very full participant in the United Good Neighbors and United Way campaign. My understanding from hearing from secondary sources is that at that time, there was also what we might call a "glass ceiling" within the United Good Neighbors and United Way in relation to racial participation. And I was wondering if you could tell me a little bit about, at that time, the situation about organizations that were primarily in communities of color or headed by people of color and their involvement or lack of involvement in the United Way.

TI: There were very few agencies of color. (And none for) Asian Pacific Islander community. I had the good fortune otherwise to be chairman of the, of all the United Way agencies, executives, and trying to bring some changes that way, but -- and at the same time for a couple of years, anyway -- this would be about twenty-seven years ago, we used to have a group of about eight Asian Pacific Islander social workers I met at the Atlantic Street Center. For two years, "What can we do about bringing some services to our community, which is lacking."

So from that two-year exploration and just talking, "What can we do?" And it ended up that a larger group then decided to start a volunteer counseling agency, and -- housed at the Blaine Memorial United Methodist Church. And the good luck was that Dr. Masuda from the School of Psychology at UW had a group of his students do a study of who came to this volunteer counseling agency. And they did an excellent piece of review and assessment. And in that early time, about twenty-five years later, when Asian Counseling Referral Service was proposed to become part of the United Way family, that United Way was just elated and surprised how well-thought-out their proposal was.

AI: The proposal of Asian Counseling and Referral Service?

TI: Yes, that Dr. Masuda was able to help do a professional job. And I heard that the United Way was just surprised that they did so well as a volunteer group, and as a result, they got in. And, with the highest degree of respect. And since then, of course, with the concern of APIs, we were able to get things like International District Housing Alliance or there was an International District Health Clinic or Asian American... you name it. And all of a sudden, it started to bubble up and establish credibility by a variety of groups of concerned Asian Pacific Islanders. And has resulted in significant improvements. All of a sudden, it started to open up.

So we were very fortunate that a handful of folks were meeting and calling themselves Asians. And at the time, that was a dirty word. Very few people would buy into being called an Asian, but rather, "I'm Japanese American," or, "Chinese American." And over a period of time, the term "Asian" was then changed to... it was okay. We really were fortunate in this city, where we had no majority among all the Asian Pacific Islanders that we were able to find that by coalescing together, we would result in better results. And sure enough, that's what happened. And other cities across the United States which I happened to visit, oh, about five years ago, found very little cooperation, and it's too bad. But we've been fortunate in this city.

AI: So here in Seattle, you think that one of the very positive factors was a willingness of people from the different ethnic backgrounds to come together for a common purpose?

TI: Yes. And where we all were trying to be sensitive to each other's needs, and that no one ethnic group would dominate the others. And that kind of mutual respect, that trust that was built on that, has resulted in many successful API (and other minority) agency development.

AI: Asian Pacific Islander agencies?

TI: Yeah.

AI: Where in the beginning of your work in the social work field, there were none.

TI: None.

AI: And now there are a number.

TI: Yeah.

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