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AI: Well, I also wanted to ask you, turning now to how you got involved with church activities, because even though your parents were not able to or didn't participate, somehow you got involved. Can you tell me about that?

TI: Well, I like to relate to other people, and there were some kids in Japanese school that were going to the (Epworth) Methodist Church, which is only about four blocks away, so it was very convenient. And it just so happened the wife of the minister was a great cook, and I loved to eat. So that was really an inducement -- [laughs] -- on my stomach. And my adult person -- teacher who taught us Sunday school was Milton (Maeda), who was my teacher, and he always got us good cookies, which was, again, a great inducement. So I enjoyed that, and 'course because it was so much socializing with each other, I found that to be really satisfying, and I found church to be a great place to be at.

AI: About when was it that you started attending? Were you in elementary school...

TI: Yes.

AI: ...or junior high?

TI: Yes. I used to go to Sunday school classes and elementary school. And in high school, we had a youth fellowship group. I was president. And I still remember this date. One time I was managing the group meeting, and the minister's wife was there. And I happened to, I was a little bit disturbed and I says, "Jesus Christ." It really embarrassed me that, I don't generally curse, but saying those words in front of minister's wife in church was very shocking to me. [Laughs] And I've never, I don't believe I've ever repeated those words that way again. But I just had such positive reinforcement, other people appreciating what I did, and so that continued to encourage me to do more and more of that.

AI: Well, it sounds like you were very, very active with the Epworth Church. That, as during your childhood and growing up and through junior high school to the high school years, that by the time you reached high school years, it sounds like you were very active with the youth fellowship.

TI: Yes. I just enjoyed it, and that really helped condition me as, I think that that might be the life, once I graduated school and, so that's how I ended up being a social worker.

AI: Did you ever, while you were in high school, were you ever considering becoming a minister yourself?

TI: No. I didn't think I was that good a person. [Laughs] So I never seriously considered that at all, although I enjoyed the life in the church very much. So I, I feel very fortunate I had that training ground experience to learn what to do and how not to do things, and gradually gave me confidence.

AI: When you say, "how to do things or how not to do things," what do you mean?

TI: Well, when you're organizing for an event at church through the youth group, how do you involve people? Don't try to control how things should be, but involve the group. And really trying to create a friendly relationship within the group. And so it's having to (speak publicly), learning how to do that, and reading worship service or speaking briefly. It all helped me in later years.

AI: Well, now you, earlier you called it the Japanese Methodist Church. Can you tell me, was it an all-Japanese American congregation?

TI: Yes. This is a, all along the West Coast we had the largest number of Japanese Methodist Churches within the Protestant belief group. So it was only Japanese Americans who attended. So we had a strong Issei congregation all in Japanese, and we had a Nisei congregation all in English. And so I enjoyed that experience. And I don't know, later, after the war was completed, we were taught not to be with each other, to integrate. So I happened to go to many Caucasian churches -- ended up at the First Baptist and found them to be friendly, and so I started attending there. Well, the people that came back, the Niseis that came back weren't doing that. So when the minister, Reverend Hayashi, came to Portland, Oregon to start the church again, I quickly changed my membership to the Epworth church. And found by doing that, even though it was segregated, it really made it possible for more Niseis to come. So, I had no problem in that.

AI: So having the ethnic community-based church had some very, it sounds like very positive aspects?

TI: Yes, you felt welcomed. You had opportunity to participate any which way you wanted to. There was no reservation, no questions asked. So it was a great place to be at to be part of that family.

AI: Now, before the war, was the minister at Epworth also Japanese?

TI: Yes.

AI: Was he Issei or Nisei?

TI: Yeah , all Isseis. There were no Niseis at that time. So we were very fortunate to have Japanese Methodist ministers who were changed from different cities. So we had several different ministers over the years. And well, I know they had a rough, tough life because the amount of money people donated was very limited. So times were rough for the minister, but still gave a lot to the community.

AI: And were your ministers mostly bilingual then because you mentioned...

TI: Yes.

AI: ...that there was an Issei service in Japanese...

TI: Yeah, uh-huh.

AI: ...and a Nisei service in English.

TI: All, practically all the ministers at that time were bilingual and, whereas later on, it became even a Sansei, Yonsei pastor couldn't speak much (Japanese). Even myself, although I went to Japanese school, my conversation was very limited. And so I, I feel I cheated myself by not talking back to my parents in Japanese. So I got away with just taking (an) easy way out.

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