<Begin Segment 21>

AI: Well, so then after you finished up with the farm labor, you got an indefinite leave...

TI: Yeah.

AI: ...as you mentioned, and you went to Salt Lake City. And what happened there when you first landed there?

TI: Well, I was staying in an apartment that's full of all Japanese (American) internees. And they were going to school. So there was a fellowship group there, but they were little older than me. They weren't the church-going type. [Laughs] So I found a Congregational church in town -- it was Japanese -- and joined it and had a great time there. And I had very limited relationship with the other residents in the hall there, because they were all university students and had different interests.

AI: And you mentioned that you got a job in a bakery.

TI: Yes, for a whole year. And it was tough, hot work.

AI: What was your work?

TI: Huh?

AI: What was your work there, your job?

TI: Well, worked right next to the big oven. Bread would be coming out in shelves, and the other worker would hit the steel table and the bread will slide out. And I'll grab with couple cloth (gloves), grab it and shove it on the rack. So (it was) hot from the heat (in the air), and the heat of the bread. I know each day I drank one quart of pop, and I'd wait till the break change to drink some more pop, I was so hot. And it didn't pay much. I don't recall how much it was. It wasn't much, but I was working. And my great joy was church, youth fellowship group, and find friendship and support. It felt real great to be out of the camp.

AI: Salt Lake City, as I understand, was also a big kind of a hub city where people going to and from the various camps would often come through town from Heart Mountain, Wyoming, camp or Minidoka or even from Topaz. So did you have many visitors coming through?

TI: No, no. They could only be in transit because you had to have a special permit to allow you to go places, so be all, obedient. I believe we all stuck by that rule. And 'course, once we got to a city, then we had to report where we were, so they had some control about where, what we were doing. Got permission to go on to Kansas, (and so the government knew) where we were.

AI: Well, in fact, in late 1943, you mentioned in your diary that in November, you got very sick. You had scarlet fever through Thanksgiving and into December?

TI: Yeah, yeah.

AI: And at that time, were you still living near your brother or...

TI: Yeah.

AI: ...with your brother?

TI: Yeah. Yeah.

AI: And then also during that time, I have a notation here, "JoJo wrote from Ottawa, Kansas, he is to become a minister."

TI: Yeah.

AI: And that's your old friend...

TI: Yeah.

AI: ...Sakakibara...

TI: Yeah.

AI: ...who you had gone out to do farm labor with.

TI: Yes.

AI: Well, and then, so at that point, you mentioned that you were able to go out to Kansas also.

TI: Yeah. And that's on partial scholarship. I was able to get there. And it was during wartime, there were only about ten male students, and it was a small school, maybe 150 female students. And so we got involved in a lot of activities and the choir, as usual. But there I had the first head-on experience of going to a barbershop and being rejected. And then I told my group about this, and we all prayed about how we can help that person. That changed our attitude. And again, it was a nice support group. (Before the war in Portland, I had the experience of not being served). You just sit there and wait, wait, wait. Everyone else is served. But that was one incident in Kansas, where I was one of the few Japanese Americans around. But they had pretty strong feelings about "Jap" and such.

AI: What about some of the Caucasian classmates there in Ottawa? How were the relationships with them?

TI: This was a Baptist school, so most of them are Baptist, close to the church, and they seemed to be more accepting of us. And there were about five of us that were Japanese Americans, and we got along quite well. And this was my first experience of playing basketball for a university. Sounds great, huh? But really because there were only ten males, I had a chance to be -- but I really wasn't good at basketball. But I had the luxury of sitting on the sidelines -- [laughs] -- waiting to be play, play basketball. But that's all bits of experience.

AI: Well, and also eventually it sounds like not only were you very active with your church fellowship activities there at college, but also social life. You also had social life and dating and dancing?

TI: Yes. Oh, yes. I just loved dancing. So you see it, there was a Japanese girl from Baker University in Kansas, and we used to have socializing in different campuses as well. It was good time. I enjoyed it very much.

AI: What about socializing with some of the Caucasian students?

TI: No. I never did. I didn't feel comfortable doing that. But I got enough socializing in youth fellowship group, that it didn't matter to me at that time. But it only lasted one semester because the army change of address called me and said, "You are now eligible for the draft."

<End Segment 21> - Copyright © 2000 Densho. All Rights Reserved.