<Begin Segment 19>

AI: Well, now that, you mentioned earlier how your older brother and sister had gone to Salt Lake City, and that they were attending college there. And it sounds like you were thinking also about perhaps getting out of camp. Tell me what your thinking was and did you...

TI: Well...

AI: ...were you thinking also of applying for college, and...?

TI: I sort of was, but I, I just didn't know what was possible. But the first thing I needed to do was go to Salt Lake City, which was a closed city. They had a population limit on how many Japanese Americans could go to any city. But if you had brother or sister or relatives, you could, so that's the reason why I was able to go and...

AI: Before you actually did go there, I saw something in your diary entries for early 1943 in January. And let me read this portion on -- I'm wondering if you have any recollection about this. "January 15, 1943. I received my questionnaire papers from Frances, Sumako and Joyce." And then about a week later, "January 21st. My questionnaire came back for a notary public." Do you recall what the questionnaire was about?

TI: That was that notorious two questions. This was actually a so-called "loyalty questionnaire." The first question was whether I'd be willing to fight for this country, which I said, "Yes." But the second question was, would I renounce my allegiance to the emperor of Japan? Well, if I'd said, "Yes" to that, then that would mean I had that allegiance. Now, if I said, "No," then I was being disloyal to this country. But at that time I felt my honest reaction was, "No." So I answered, "Yes-no." Those who said "no-no" were then later shipped to Tule Lake for the so-called "most dangerous disloyal persons." I just said, "No." And I asked a soldier that was in front of me, "What does that mean?" "Aw, it doesn't mean anything." That's what he said. [Laughs] Well in that case, I really (thought) I (couldn't) say 'yes' to that, so (I said) 'no.' And fortunately I wasn't (labeled) as a disloyal person. That was a very difficult (question), putting all of us to answer that questionnaire. And they had us, no matter which way you answered the question, we were in trouble.

And so I ended up trying to be as honest -- I definitely had no loyalty to the emperor of Japan, and so I will not foreswear any allegiance. But I would fight for this country. So that's how I ended up doing it. And at the time, those who said "no-no," I felt they were, at the time I (believed) they were being disloyal to America, even in camp. Again because of my training as a son, a young person, I need to obey my elders. And if the President of the United States (said) do certain thing, we would quickly say "yes" with a thoughtful response. It was one of the few times that I said "no." And thought I needed to say "no." But that wasn't, fortunately, held against me, so when I was able to go to Salt Lake City, I was cleared to go. And that way I could have board, and I can have room, 'cause I was sleeping with my brother, older brother, double bed and, while he was working going to school. And I worked for a full year in a bakery, next to a hot oven. Salt Lake City is (very) hot in the summer, but that (compounded the heat of the oven). And then I was able to get a scholarship from the Baptist Church to go to Ottawa University in Kansas. And...

AI: Oh, excuse me.

TI: ...JoJo was there.

AI: Before we skip ahead to that time...

TI: Yeah.

AI: ...which we will come to, I wanted to back up just a little bit, because I think this period that you just talked about of making a decision about how to answer on this so-called "loyalty questionnaire," that was a major decision for you and for many people.

TI: Yeah.

AI: I wanted to ask you, did you have any friends who did decide to say, "no-no"?

TI: No. No, most of us in the Minidoka camp were more obedient. [Laughs] We just accepted it. And so when we found others said, "no-no," we felt they were bad, they were not being an honorable student or (loyal Americans). We heard there were some people in Heart Mountain, who were objecting. And it was, it was a very difficult discussion among each other and among the parent group, and, as of what to do. And no one really knew the answer to that. What really should we do? I didn't know of any major incidents where there were a number in the Minidoka camp that were protesting this as they did in like Heart Mountain, (which were) more organized opposition. We were obedient on the whole. I'm guessing most of 'em said, "yes-yes," and I was one of a few that said, "yes-no." [Laughs]

AI: Well, now this was also a very immediate question for you personally because at (that) time, you were eighteen years old, so you were eligible for military service once the government decided to re-institute...

TI: At the time, they had. So...

AI: Right. There was no draft yet for the Nisei.

TI: Yeah. So that wasn't the option, the probability of happening. But it just, it was tough to, with all the training I had to obey my elders or leaders to, to have the courage to say, "no." But yet I felt I couldn't say "yes" to that second question. And so as a result, I just said, I had no problem in saying, "I'll fight for this country."

AI: Well, in fact, in thinking about fighting for the United States, you wrote in your diary in early February, and I'll read it to you: "February 8, 1943. I guess I'll volunteer after I graduate from high school." And the next day, "February 9th. Tonight I went to hear Mr. Stafford" -- that's your principal at school in camp -- "speak about volunteer enlistment at Mess 35. A capacity crowd attended. It all came down to the point, for your own good, to volunteer." And it sounds like from that point on, there was quite a bit of discussion also about whether to volunteer for service or not.

TI: Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. Among camps, as I understand it, Minidoka had the highest proportion number who actually volunteered. Those like San Pedro, California, where there were, broader community was so rough on the Japanese Americans (and) their anger was much greater. So because we were treated fairly reasonably in Portland, Seattle area, the willingness to volunteer to the armed forces was greater. That's my, way I (saw) it, although I didn't volunteer myself. [Laughs]

<End Segment 19> - Copyright © 2000 Densho. All Rights Reserved.