Densho Digital Archive - Marianne West Interview

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AI: Well, today is July 2, 2000, and we're here in Klamath Falls, Oregon, with Marianne West. And I'm Alice Ito with the Densho Project, and videographer is Steve Hamada. And thanks very much, Marianne, for visiting with us today.

MW: It's my pleasure.

AI: I wanted to just start out at the beginning and ask you when and where you were born.

MW: I was born in Seattle, November 4th of 1926. I was born on Yesler Street by a midwife. But at the time, my parents lived in Leavenworth. So after, shortly after I was born, we moved to Leavenworth.

AI: And did you spend part of your childhood there?

MW: Until I was in about the fourth grade.

AI: Does anything stand out in your memory about Leavenworth? What do you remember most?

MW: I remember that we spoke Japanese and English mixed in school. And when I played with the kids, I probably answered in English because they were speaking to me in English. But when I went to school, sometimes I'd get the two languages mixed. And so after that, my folks said that we would speak English in the house so the rest of the children wouldn't have that problem when they started school.

AI: Well, can you tell me your mother's and father's name and a little bit about them?

MW: Uh-huh. My father's name was Sumekichi, but everyone called him Sam Sumehiro. And my mother's name was Hisaye. And they were both from Hiroshima in Japan.

AI: And tell me a little bit more about what you know about your father's life in Japan, his family.

MW: Well, my father came over to America, I believe about 1889, and he must have been sixteen. And he started working with the railroad crews that were laying the railroad lines. And eventually taught himself to read and write, and worked himself up to where he was the foreman of the gang. And when he was in his late thirties, he went back to Japan, and a marriage was arranged. He married my mother, who was twenty at the time. And they came over, and they went to Havre, Montana, where my father had a crew working laying railroad track. And my mother pitched in as a cook for the crew, and they worked there for several years before they moved out to the, Washington. And then they started working in, like Leavenworth area where they didn't have to move about.

AI: And so the crew that your dad was the foreman for and your mom cooked for, was that a Japanese crew?

MW: They were mainly Japanese and a few Filipinos.

<Begin Segment 2>

AI: And tell me, how did you find out about this information about your dad and your mom?

MW: My dad would talk about it when we'd ask him. And for a long time I didn't know, but it was, I learned most of this after the camp years. He told me about episodes of coming over, not being able to speak English, going to the store and needing an alarm clock, and he would make the motion of sleeping and then make a noise like an alarm clock, and the clerk would know he needed an alarm clock. He would go in when he needed eggs, and cackle like a chicken, and the clerk would know it was either chicken or eggs. [Laughs] And things like hand soap, he made the motions of washing his hands -- laundry soap, he would make the motions of scrubbing on a washboard. And eventually, as he got things by motion, he learned the words and he learned English, and he eventually taught himself also to read and write.

AI: That's very resourceful. Well, so, now you mentioned that when you were young in Leavenworth, they decided that they would, you would speak English in the home. What about your mother? Did she speak English also?

MW: She was speaking English pretty good when we went to camp. But after she came out of camp, she's kind of a lost cause, 'cause she spoke Japanese in camp and I think she lost a lot of her English. Which is the same with my Japanese. I have to think before I speak now instead of speaking right out.

AI: But, as a child, you were, you would speak Japanese and English.

MW: Mixed, uh-huh. Really didn't know the difference between one language and the other.

AI: And did you ever have any trouble in school because of that as far as teachers or other kids?

MW: No. The teacher was a friend of our family's, and so she was very polite in the way she corrected me. She never embarrassed me in the classroom or anything. And it wasn't long before I knew which words were which.

AI: And what, can you tell me a little bit about the ethnic composition of Leavenworth or of your classes? Were there any other kids there who were not Caucasian other than yourself?

MW: No. I was the only Asian, and there were, there were some Italian families that kind of stayed to themselves. But, outside of that, I was probably the only minority. We were the only ones in town.

AI: So then tell me, then what happened after Leavenworth.

MW: Well, we moved to Marcus, which is where Lake Washington -- Lake Roosevelt is now. And the government bought out the town and flooded it to make the lake. And so that's when we moved out to the coast. But also there, we were the only Japanese in town. There were a few Native Americans, but outside of that, I was probably the only minority in town.

AI: And then about how long did you stay there before moving to the coast?

MW: We stayed there 'til I was a sophomore in high school.

AI: Was it difficult for you, then, having to move away?

MW: Not really. I seemed to adjust easily whenever we, we moved.

AI: And where did you move to when you went to the coast?

MW: We moved to Skykomish, and from Skykomish, we moved to Mukilteo, and then to Bellingham. That was all in a space, it must have been two years. And I went to camp from Bellingham.

<Begin Segment 3>

AI: So now, tell me about when you were in Bellingham. What year were you in high school then?

MW: I was a junior.

AI: And what happened, can you recall what happened on Pearl Harbor day?

MW: Yeah.

AI: What were you doing?

MW: Yeah, Pearl Harbor day, I was out practicing rifle shooting -- [laughs] -- which upset my father terribly when we got back home.

AI: So you had gone out in the morning before...

MW: Before we knew, uh-huh.

AI: ...and...

MW: And we were out for a couple hours.

AI: Who were you out with?

MW: I was out with a friend of our family's. And he was Japanese, too. He had come to visit. And we went out shooting.

AI: And this was something normal for you that you used to do?

MW: Yeah. Living out in the country we, yeah, shot a lot.

AI: And when you came back home, what did your dad say to you?

MW: He was very upset. He said I was very stupid, and didn't I know? And we told him, "No." And I don't know what he did with the rifles, but I didn't see 'em any more after that. He might have given them to some of his employees or something. They were just .22s, but I never saw them again.

AI: Now, when he had that reaction, what did you think? Did you know what he was talking about?

MW: Not really, 'cause I didn't believe it. But as the day progressed, then I understood that it did happen.

AI: And what was your reaction?

MW: Probably just a state of shock.

AI: Now, at that point, you, did you pretty much consider yourself an American?

MW: Yes, I did.

AI: And you, did you feel that it would have an impact on you, that Japan had bombed Pearl Harbor?

MW: Not at the beginning because I had never faced prejudice all my years growing up. And then after the, they came and they took the radios, and I think my dad had a pistol and a camera, couple of cameras, and they took all that. And then, then I got to thinking, "Oh, it's going to hit all of us."

AI: When did that happen and who came?

MW: I think it was the police department that came. And it wasn't the day after. I know it was sometime after that they came.

AI: What did they do? Did they search through your house? What was it like when they came?

MW: No, they were polite. They came and they told us what they were after, and we gave it to 'em. And they took our word for that's all there was. There wasn't a search of the house or anything like that.

AI: What happened after that?

MW: I can remember going to school, but I can't remember whether there was any hatred or anything shown towards me. And then when the evacuation orders came, that's when we were told we could only take what we could carry. So my father told each of us kids that we could pick two items that we could take. And I took my stamp collection and a diary, and my brothers took little toys. And I think my baby sister took some paper dolls or something. But we were told we couldn't take anything heavy. And all our things were given away, first to his employees, and then what was left, we took to the children's, boys club, Boys and Girls Club at the YWCA. And the rest was just left in the house when we left.

AI: Was that a house that you had been renting or that you owned?

MW: No. That was a house that was furnished by the railroad for us to live in.

AI: And what do you recall of that day, your last day there?

MW: I really don't remember too much. I can remember after we got on the train. We were all crowded in and the shades were drawn. There was an MP in every car. And outside of that, I don't remember. I don't remember how they fed us or when they fed us or if they fed us, but they must have. And then getting to camp, I recall getting there waiting to be assigned to housing, but I don't remember too much about after that until we were in the unit we were assigned to.

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AI: So, so when you left Bellingham, that was in May?

MW: Of '42.

AI: Of '42. And who all went together with you?

MW: My mother and father, and my two brothers and a sister. And then later on, we had a uncle that was in Minidoka. And he had no family. And some way or the other, he showed up at Tule Lake. [Laughs] And he lived with us, so after that, there was seven of us.

AI: So you got on the train in Bellingham, and then what happened? Did you go straight to Tule Lake?

MW: I think, you know we might have even taken a bus from Bellingham. It seems like we got on a train maybe in Everett or somewhere, because there was people there already when we got, got there. Really don't remember that too clearly.

AI: But your family never did go to an assembly center then?

MW: No. We were lucky. We missed the bad part of evacuation.

AI: Then coming into Tule Lake, what's the first thing you remember about it?

MW: Gosh, I don't know. I know it was an awful barren place. And I don't think the towers and the fences really came to my attention until later. And I remember seeing the place we had to live and wondering how we were going to fight in that little room and not kill each other. [Laughs] But we survived. They partitioned off the rooms, and I don't know where they got the wood and stuff, but they had benches and made little tables, and we had fruit crates that they used. And it's amazing what you can do with very little when it's a necessity.

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AI: Now, you had been going to high school before you were forced to leave. What happened about your schooling? Were you able to finish high school?

MW: I finished. I had two credits and I finished those.

AI: And so you did receive your diploma?

MW: I did, uh-huh. And when I applied for a civil service job, I filled out my application and they asked where my transcripts were. And I told them the Department of Interior, Washington, D.C., under WRA. And she, they called me back and asked me if I read the question correctly. [Laughs] And I told them how it happened, and evidently, they must have gotten them.

AI: So you finished up your high school, and then what did you do next while you were in Tule Lake?

MW: Well, for a while I think I just helped my mom watch the kids and do the odds and end chores that I had to do. And then later I got a job as a block mother.

AI: Tell me about that. What was block mother?

MW: Well, when the new babies were born, the mothers had no way in their apartments to sterilize bottles or sterilize water, and so that was my job, to sterilize bottles, boil water, fill them, and then replace them. The mothers would come in and exchange their empty bottles for bottles of sterile water so they could mix formula or give their babies water. And baby food and things would be delivered to the mess hall, and then the mothers would pick 'em up there.

AI: So you had like a little station or office there at...?

MW: Got in the mess hall in-between shifts, and did this, and then I took it to, I believe it's either the recreation or the laundry room, where the mothers came and picked up their stuff.

AI: Now, how did this come about? Was this a paid job that you had?

MW: Yeah. I made $12 a month. [Laughs] And I worked at that for a while. And I can't remember working after we went to Heart Mountain. Heart Mountain is a blank.

AI: Well, tell me a little bit more about Tule Lake. What were your mother and father doing at that time?

MW: My mother worked in the mess hall, and... can't remember what my father did. I know he wasn't out on the farm.

AI: You mentioned earlier that your mother started speaking a lot of Japanese while she was in camp.

MW: She did.

AI: And what about your father?

MW: He did too, yeah. And at home, they spoke Japanese between themselves. But it was, when they were speaking to us, the children, that it was English until we were all well set in school. And then it went back to speaking Japanese.

AI: What kind of effect did you think, did camp have on your parents? You were still young, but you were living so closely together with your whole family. How did that affect them?

MW: In camp or after camp?

AI: In camp.

MW: In camp? I don't know. My father changed to a kind of a withdrawn man, and my mother kept busy. She had the children and things to do, so I didn't notice much of a change in her.

AI: And what about your brothers? What were they up to?

MW: Well, they went to school, and they were the mischievous kids that kids will be. [Laughs]

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AI: Now, in our earlier conversation, you were saying a little bit about remembering the time when the so-called "loyalty questionnaire" came out. Can you tell me what that was about?

MW: I can remember a lot of discussion in a lot of different groups, especially the "no-no" groups. They were having meetings, and they were very fanatic. And it seemed to me like the "yes-yes" groups were more or less subdued, and you didn't hear their version too much. But my father was "yes-yes," but I couldn't see that. I knew I was a citizen, and, but I felt I didn't have my rights. And so I still felt that I, my loyalty should be to the United States because I knew I didn't want to go to Japan, 'cause I knew they didn't want me there either. So I took the lesser of two evils. So I was in favor of a "yes-no."

AI: Could you tell me a little bit more about that, when you say you knew that the Japanese wouldn't want you? How did you know that, or how did you come to feel that way?

MW: Well, for one thing, I, I knew that we were American citizens and the Japanese would never consider us as Japanese. I just had that feeling that even with my parents, I didn't know whether they would be welcome in Japan or not after being away for so long. I didn't think it would be a haven to go to. And I thought, "Well, the United States, as wrong as they were, was probably the lesser of two evils."

AI: And tell me more about your thoughts about how wrong the government was, because there were quite a few people who were talking many different opinions. How did you come to your opinion?

MW: At that time, I was just thinking of the lesser of two evils. But as I think back now, I know my civil rights were denied, and I also know that if there were more of us that were outspoken instead of staying in a clannish group and associated more with the other races and the other people, that maybe this could've been avoided. But we were so humble and obedient, that we just went. And I don't believe today that this would happen. We are much more aware of our rights, and there are other people that are willing to stand up for our rights. And this is the reason why races can't stay within themselves. There has to be diversity, and there has to be cultural awareness. And evacuation was a bad thing. But after evacuation, it seemed like the Japanese did reach out more, and if this happens, it will be one good thing that did come out of this awful experience.

AI: Now, you mentioned that your father decided to sign "yes-yes."

MW: Uh-huh.

AI: What do you think made him decide that way?

MW: Well, I, I found out later that he, his loyalty was with the United States. But at that time, I believed that was his reason, and also I think he was thinking of his family. And I think he knew that there was nothing in Japan for us.

AI: Did you have any family discussion at that time about the "loyalty questionnaire"?

MW: My mother and father talked about it, but we weren't included.

AI: Uh-huh. And for yourself, in your own mind, you didn't feel "yes-yes" yourself?

MW: No. I had no desire to go to Japan, although I've been there later. But at that time, I had no desire to go to Japan.

AI: So now, at that time, there were so many families going through this decision-making about the questionnaire. Did you know anybody, have any friends or co-workers who were, made a different decision or had some difficult choices to make?

MW: No. I really didn't talk about it with other people too much. I think the ones that went "yes-yes" really didn't talk too much to other people about their decisions.

AI: Can you tell me a little bit more about what happened to the atmosphere of the camp as this went on?

MW: Well, it just seemed to be different groups that were together, and they were kind of more or less trying to push their theory onto other people. And I never went to any of the meetings, but I heard that they had different meetings in different blocks trying to influence the people. And I guess sometimes they were almost threatening.

AI: But you didn't feel that personally?

MW: Well, no. I think I was young enough that I wasn't involved in it.

<Begin Segment 7>

AI: Well, now then eventually, what happened? Then, you were in Tule Lake from May of '42 through 1943. And then you were transferred?

MW: To Heart Mountain. I don't remember exactly when that happened, but it might have been the spring of '44. It seemed like it was the early part of the year. I know it wasn't the wintertime. And after that move, Heart Mountain is really a blank to me. I don't remember if I worked or what happened. I know my father left camp and worked somewhere in Wyoming. And he came back and then left again, and that went on for a couple months. And then we decided that we would leave.

AI: And were you told that you could leave, or how did that come about?

MW: Yeah, that was during the time that they were trying to shove everybody out. They -- in fact, they were encouraging people to leave when we were still in Tule Lake, as long as we didn't return to the restricted zone. But we, we decided to leave. My father knew he would have employment if he came back, came to Spokane.

AI: And how did he know that?

MW: Because he knew he had seniority with the railroad. That he would, he didn't lose his seniority. He lost his job status, but he didn't lose his seniority.

AI: Which, do you know which company that was?

MW: That was the Great Northern.

AI: So what steps did you have to take to leave the camp?

MW: Well, I was elected to leave, come to Spokane and find a house. And then as soon as I found a house, the rest of the family would come out. And so I came out and...

AI: How did you leave? How did you leave camp?

MW: I left, took a bus to Cody, and up to Great Falls. And I took a train from Great Falls, came to Spokane.

AI: Did you do it by yourself?

MW: Uh-huh. But at that time, there was another girl leaving the same time. She was coming to Spokane. So there was actually two of us traveling together.

AI: What kind of reaction did you get? Did you have any troubles on your way?

MW: No. But we stayed pretty close to ourselves on the train. And then when I got to Spokane, her friends picked her up, and then they dropped me off at a hotel. So we had someone to meet us when we got here.

AI: What did you do then?

MW: I met a Japanese man in the hotel that, I met him at the restaurant I went to eat. And he, I was talking, and he told me there was a man, a Japanese man that had a house for rent. And so I went out and looked at it, and it was a big house. It had three bedrooms. So I made agreement, and we rented, I rented the house. And then a couple months later, my family came out.

AI: And then what were you doing in the meantime? Were you able to find work?

MW: Yeah. I found work in the restaurant where I went to eat. [Laughs] So I worked there 'til my family came out.

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AI: Tell me a little bit about what Spokane was like at that time, because the war was still going on.

MW: I had friends that were from Marcus. You know, when I told you the city was flooded out? Some of them came down to Spokane. And so I met them. And we would go places together. And there were signs, "No Japs Wanted." And I said, "We can't go there." And they said, "Oh yes, we can." So we'd go in, and I could see them asking. And they said, "Oh, she just came over from Hawaii," or, "She's a Filipino," or, "She's Chinese." And they never knew the difference, and that showed me right there that people don't know what they're prejudiced against. It's, I think prejudice is a fear of something that they really aren't aware of what they're fearful of. They don't have the knowledge of what they are really prejudiced against.

So we went, met in the Davenport Hotel. Sometimes when we were meeting to go to a movie or something, that was one of the places that we weren't allowed. But I still went. We'd go eat somewhere where the sign was in the window, but we went anyway. But that's when your true friends come out because they were there for me when I came back to Spokane, and I still have contact with them today.

AI: Well, so now, tell me then when your family joined you, how were they? Was their health all right? Your father had been going out to work, and...

MW: He got a job. He got a job as a laborer, and he worked for about a year -- then he had a heart attack. And he had to take a early retirement. And my mother was able to get his retirement because she had a child under eighteen. So that was income, small income there for them. And I worked and my brother helped out. And so we managed.

AI: And so did you decide as a family that you would stay there in Spokane, that you would settle there?

MW: Yes, we did, uh-huh. We saw a house that was for rent -- I mean for sale, and we borrowed the down payment and we bought the house. And we kind of got started from there.

<Begin Segment 9>

AI: Now, at the time you left camp, you must have been about how old?

MW: I was, I think I was nineteen. I turned twenty right after I came out of camp.

AI: And then about that time, you mentioned in our earlier talk that fairly soon you met your husband-to-be.

MW: Yes, uh-huh.

AI: Can you tell me about that?

MW: Yes. I was in this restaurant. And he was a military policeman, and he would come in and make sure that any servicemen in there were on their best behavior. And that's how I met him.

AI: Had you had any trouble previously with some servicemen?

MW: Well, a lot of times they'd come in in groups. And they finish eating, they don't want to leave or something like that. And if he came around, he would get them out for us.

AI: And what was his name?

MW: Clarence West. So we have been married for fifty-three years, and we have seven children and a host of grandchildren and a few great-grandchildren.

AI: Well, now, tell me, tell me about Clarence, because this was an unusual relationship in some ways for the times.

MW: Yes because he was, he was a black. And he was from Florida. And he was stationed in Spokane. When we got married I think it caused some commotion among the community.

AI: What kinds of things were people telling you?

MW: That if we had children, they wouldn't amount to anything, and that I'd be abused, and he would leave me. Oh, I think I had someone even tell me I was bringing shame on my family. But the very same persons that told me that ended up with their children in biracial marriages, too, so it shows how the world has changed.

AI: What about your own family's response?

MW: My father was negative in the beginning, but it wasn't long before he came around.

AI: And did you ever, were you able to meet any of his family?

MW: Yes, uh-huh. We went to Florida several times. When his, he was the baby of the family, and when his sisters got sick, we went down quite often to check on them, too.

AI: How did they receive you as a different person in their family?

MW: Right after we got married, his father came up to visit us. I think he had to come up and see what was going on. And we got along very well. And his sisters all accepted me, and it was a good relationship.

AI: Now, as you were saying, in those times, many people did have negative attitudes toward interracial marriages...

MW: Uh-huh.

AI: ...and children who had mixed heritage. Did you and Clarence have any concerns for your children, or what they might face?

MW: I think our prime goal was to make sure they got an education, because I felt if they were educated, that they would be able to avoid the pitfalls that I walked into and they would be aware of what they were entitled to and they would be able to meet with different people and get along. That was... but I felt education was the main thing. And so I really stressed education. And once they got started in school, it was fine because they're very competitive among themselves. So they studied and they did well in school.

<Begin Segment 10>

AI: Well now, jumping ahead in time, a great deal in time, I wanted to ask you how -- this is the second Tule Lake Pilgrimage you've come on.

MW: Yes, it is, uh-huh.

AI: But how did you happen to come to the first one that you went to last...

MW: Oh, my third daughter, Ella, that lives in San Jose, went to a fall festival. And the Tule Lake Committee had set up a booth, and she got the information. And up until that time, I was unaware of these pilgrimages that were going on. So she got the information, and she sent it to -- well, I think it's her fault that just the girls went because she didn't include the boys either. [Laughs] But we, we got together, and we decided we would go. Linda was unable, the oldest daughter was unable to come on the first one. But the other three girls and I came down. And the boys were upset, so we said we'd come down on the next one, so we came.

AI: So, what, how do you feel? What's your reaction from being here, coming back to Tule Lake?

MW: The second time is much easier. The first time, there were some moments that were kind of traumatic, seeing the barracks, and I still can't believe that seven people lived in the area that we lived in. And at one place, when they stepped on the barbed wire fence and opened it up for us to come through, I had moments then. And going through the camp, it was kind of hard, but this time it's much easier. And the children were never aware of my camp experiences. They knew that I had been in camp because when the -- what is that called? When Congress declared that they had made a mistake, and during that time they found out that I had been in camp. But even my husband was unaware of those three hidden years of my life. And so now more and more is coming out, and we sit and talk about different things. And I think it's hard for them to believe, too, some of the things that have happened.

AI: Why was it that you hadn't spoken about this before?

MW: Well, you know, I, I knew I didn't do anything wrong because I knew that if I had done something wrong, I wouldn't be so stupid that I'd be here in May, after Pearl Harbor in December, to get caught. I would've been long gone. But I knew I hadn't done anything wrong. But still, the stigma of being sent to a camp and being interned, there was just some feeling there that I still thought something was wrong. And for that reason, we never talked about it. And I've talked to other people, and I think they've done the same thing.

AI: But now that you're here...

MW: So now it's out in the open. It's, after the last pilgrimage, too, I also said that this was something I wasn't going to keep quiet. So I have been open about it in different areas. In fact, in September, I have a speech at a church about diversity, so I'm not being quiet anymore. It might be a little late, but it's better than never.

AI: What kind of reactions have your children had to the things you've told them?

MW: They want to know why I never said anything. And I just say, "Well, I don't know." And now all the questions are coming out, and so whatever they ask, I try to answer the best I can. And I think they're really interested. They seem to be taking everything in and asking questions. So I think it's great that these pilgrimages are happening, especially for the younger people. And if I should live long enough, I hope I can bring my grandchildren down. [Laughs]

AI: Tell me a little bit about your husband's reaction. You said that he also really didn't know what had happened.

MW: Well, he knew that I had come to Spokane, being released from internment camp. And that was all I told him. And if he asked, he didn't get any answers. And so he quit asking. [Laughs] So he's finding out more and more about it. His one reaction is, "Why do you want to go back to someplace that was so miserable for you?" And I said, "I'm going back to make sure it doesn't happen to other people." And he still says, "I don't know why you're going back down there." [Laughs]

AI: Well, if you were going to give some words of comment or advice to younger people now, is there something you'd like to say to them?

MW: I'd like to say that, you know, when God created us, He created us all equal. And this is something that we should remember, that everyone is a human being. Everyone has feelings. There is no difference, whether you're black, white, brown, yellow, green or purple. We're all human beings. And until the time that we take the time to understand each other and work together and give each other the respect that we should give, and then we'll receive it, I think everything will work out at that time. But as long as you try to stay in your own little clique and not worry about what's happening to anyone else, you're doing yourself harm as well as the other person.

AI: Well, thank you very much, Marianne. We really appreciate your time with us.

MW: Well, thank you.