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AI: We're continuing our interview with Gordon Hirabayashi. It's May 4, 2000. I'm Alice Ito, and the co-interviewer is Tom Ikeda. Dana Hoshide is videographer here at the Densho studio in Seattle, Washington. Gordon, we're continuing on with, you're still waiting as your case is being appealed and going through the appeals process, and you are continuing to work for American Friends Service Committee, for the Quakers in a small, one-person office in Spokane, Washington. And can you tell us a little bit more about some experiences of the people who are coming out of the camps now, and you're assisting them to resettle in Spokane. I think you mentioned earlier about Dr. Paul Suzuki and his wife, Nobu Suzuki, were a couple who came out from camp.

GH: Yes. This, this was the case of a special house they were looking for, and one that usually went beyond the range I was looking around for, for the average person coming in. As a doctor, he needed certain kinds of space, and, and social circles, space, activities, and so on, and wanted to be in a district that had a home of that type. And so we're looking at a little more expensive area than the usual laboring group residence. And we found a place, which was an outstanding house, brick, plenty of room, and so on, which Mrs. Suzuki found appealing, and eventually went ahead and made the arrangements for, for purchase. That was one of the experiences that was good for me to have because we moved into an area that I usually didn't search for, because most of my people were people working and wanting a place that didn't eat up all their income for rent. So that was a refreshing experience, reaching beyond for one of our customers.

AI: Now, as you were looking in these higher-priced homes for a suitable place for the Suzukis, did you run into either subtle or blatant discrimination?

GH: I didn't have to, we didn't look into all the districts. That's one thing. Secondly, I wasn't all that experienced in real estate, so I wasn't, I wasn't aware of where some of the practicing lines were for restrictions. I know some persons who are used to anti-Semitic experience would tell me there are certain signs they would notice, and they look for that to see if it's present in this neighborhood or not, or if it's native Indian or African American. Now, with Asians, it, they were, it was a special type of thing that I could notice in some respects, but not always in terms of the better housing areas. They were a little more subtle.

Now, on Suzukis we ran into very little in the way of frontal opposition. However, after the purchase we did have experiences where neighborhood bullies drove by on a pick-up and tossed a large stone in the big front plate glass window, breaking it, of course. But Mrs. Suzuki was, not only was a combative person who didn't run and fight on first occasion, but also who, who was willing to stand by and, and fought the thing towards security for herself. This was a shocking experience to her, but she didn't blame it on everybody out there. These roughnecks came through, and they weren't those that stood around, they just had some signs saying "No Japs in Here." And we, we knew it was intended for her. It wasn't just somebody just wanting to break stuff. But she, she was very constructive in the way she approached this. She saved that, the biggest rock to use for her pickling process, and so when she was making what the Japanese call takuan, the long, white, what is it, like...?

AI: Radish?

GH: Radish. Long radish. You needed to have weight. And so she was using it for its proper purpose, even though it got to her through improper use.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2000 Densho. All Rights Reserved.