<Begin Segment 11>

TI: What were you feeling? Were you angry? Were you disappointed or what, what kind of feelings did you have?

GH: Well, I knew, I knew that this practice, I knew in Seattle, for example, there's certain places I never went to because it wasn't good experience, good feeling on my part to run into that. And secondly, if I were with somebody else non-white, I mean a white, it'd be embarrassing. It wouldn't be the way to have a good evening. So I avoided those places. So it wasn't new to me. I knew they practiced this. I knew that, I knew that in principle, we all went for this, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal," and all that sort of thing, Declaration of Independence, the Preamble to it. Never mind the fact that it said that all men are created equal. Even that part, we now change it ourselves, "all persons" because for 130 years, the women weren't persons, let alone didn't have franchise. It took a lot of battling to get that, even though we have this basic principle that one good thing, what is included in "all men," you know, they meant all white men, besides. It wasn't just any men. So it takes, it takes, social change requires a lot of changes, I mean lot of confrontations, before it's accepted. And so I knew, I knew that sort of thing would happen. So I wasn't personally shocked or, or personally angry, but I didn't like the situation. And I didn't want to accept it. So I tried to do what I could in the way of change. After that, nothing happened there except that we finished our meal. Least we had, at least to myself, I was satisfied we made some progress. We didn't just accept it. And about...

TI: Before you go there, what was the reaction of your friend, who was a prominent citizen in this community?

GH: Yeah. Well, he was a young fellow. He was nineteen or twenty.

TI: And yet he recommended this place to you?

GH: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

TI: What did he say or feel?

GH: Well, he was, in principle, with me. Otherwise, he would have, he would have left. [Laughs] And I think he was the kind of a person and, and probably he explained it, what experience he went through, to his parents. And this might have come up, and maybe the parents took some action. I don't know that. He just wrote and said, "Say, that guy took that sign off, 'No Japs.'" 'Cause one of the things I had discussed with him, I said, "You know, this area here was in dire straits with a lack of employees at harvest period for sugar beets. And that makes a lot of difference to your whole economy here. And they came to the camps to look for volunteers. And a whole bunch of people came out. And they worked their backs off here. And then you treat them like this. That's not very good. And you're benefiting from it, economically." So I had this kind of discussion, and he's heard this, so he was probably telling his dad what's happening. And it, it, it's demeaning our Constitution, if you put it that way. And these people aren't living up to it, and, and others who like this principle ought to get after these people who are ignoring it. Well, he said, "This guy took the sign down. And since he was the most prominent restaurant, other people began to take the signs off. And looks like maybe we got that battle beaten."

But that was one thing. If I just left, probably nothing much would have happened. Maybe something, some fight or something might take place later, and something take, some incident happen. But on that, on that aspect, I remember it. Maybe there are experiences that I wouldn't remember now because they weren't outstanding experiences for me that, to remember. But this one I never forgot because we, we put some attention to something. And then we tried to be reasonable and gave illustrations, and gave where some people were actually out doing some good, but treated like dirt. And that didn't seem very, very good in terms of principles that we seem to be proud of. And that came home a little bit.

TI: With this incident?

GH: Yeah.

TI: That's a wonderful story, Gordon.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2000 Densho. All Rights Reserved.