Densho Digital Archive - Ben Uyeno Interview

<Begin Segment 1>

DG: Your father was born when?

BU: I can't tell you.

DG: But your guess?

BU: He came over to this country when he was only about twenty.

DG: And that was about 1910?

BU: 1910, 1909-1910.

DG: So then he was born about 1890.

BU: Yeah. That was before the Sino-Japanese war.

DG: Right, right.

BU: And, but there was major upheaval among the young people.

DG: Why was that?

BU: Well, because they had no jobs.

DG: Well, you know, we should put it into the tape. [Laughs]

BU: I think it was mostly because my father's generation was around twenty, and they needed jobs to get to where they wanted to go if they were going to go anywhere. I'm talking about economically and family-wise. So therefore, they had, they had to do something different. So four... my father's friends -- were four -- even in Japan, not a single one knew that the other one was going to come. All four landed here in the U.S.A. and they met out there at the Yakima, Yakima railroad, railroad gang. They all four got the same day. They walked in, "Hey you, Mokitaka." So all their life they, they were close together.

[Interruption]

BU: Franklin, Garfield, Broadway. In terms of pictures.

DG: Taking pictures?

BU: Taking pictures for the yearly annual. Mr. Mizuki had a, had a greenhouse, greenhouse in the south end of town on Empire Way, and Mr. Mizukami, he, he started a greenhouse down there in the south end of Fife, and all four of those people have been helping me at Keiro all these years. It crosses over.

DG: It does.

BU: So, because whenever I, like one, one Christmas I needed some Christmas trees so I went up to see Ojisan and I said, "Ojisan, ii koto shite chodai," okay? I told him what I need. You can't just have any old Christmas tree, you have to have fireproof. See, I wanted fireproof so ever since then for twenty-one years now, every Christmas I get three Christmas tree, one for the front, front, and one for each floor. I get three Christmas trees.

DG: So that's from Mr. Mizuta?

BU: No, Mizuki.

DG: Mizuki, that's right.

BU: Yeah, Mizuki. And Mr... the other one is Mizukami. Just last Friday -- no, I called him up before, but he called me, and he says he'll bring me my bedding plants --

DG: From Puyallup.

BU: -- that day. Well, Puyallup, same thing, Fife. Anyway, he say he will bring me a load of... so I get on Saturday and I sold it. I sold, sold it to make some money for projects I got. Well, anyway...

<Begin Segment 2>

DG: Now what's your father's name?

BU: Huh?

DG: What was your father's name?

BU: Shigejiro.

DG: Shigejiro Uyeno.

BU: Nobody knows him by Shigejiro. He has a pen name. He's best known for his poetry, senryuu. Senryuu is like haiku. It's five-seven-five. And he was a master of it. And he, he also wrote a book just before he died, which is... and I'm going to give that to the Japanese, Japanese museum.

DG: So he did belong to a club here?

BU: Yeah, he belonged to it. He was the head of it. He was a sensei.

DG: What, what was that? Senryuu.

BU: The senryuu no club.

DG: Was it...

BU: It was called the Hokubei Ginsha.

DG: Oh.

BU: And he was a teacher. He, at the club they make poetry, then he'd correct it. And he wrote at eighty years of senryuu poetry into a book on his eightieth birthday. So that's all right.

<Begin Segment 3>

DG: Okay. We were talking earlier, now your father was born around 1890 and in where in Japan?

BU: Toyama. Toyama, Japan. You know, if you look at Japan, long down the... and then right across, right across is Korea, but the tail of Korea points to Japan. That's exactly where Toyama is.

DG: So when we were talking earlier you said that he grew up interested in medicine.

BU: Well, because he was interested in science.

DG: But was he on a farm?

BU: He was on a farm until, until he went to high school. They didn't have high school in the (inaka) place so, therefore, he had to come in, come in to Toyama, which is the city. So in order to go to Toyama, he had to live with my mother's family. He, they made arrangements for him to stay there while he was going to high school.

DG: That was still called Toyama.

BU: Yeah, Toyama, yeah.

DG: But it was the city instead of the farm.

BU: The city, yeah. So that's how, that's how he got to know Mother. Because they lived... and then he came back, he came to America after four or five years when he made some money, he started a business.

DG: So let's go back now. He came to America, then, when he was about twenty, you said?

BU: I would say twenty, twenty-one, less.

DG: So that was around 1910.

BU: Yeah, yeah.

DG: And then he came to work on the railroad first.

BU: No, he went -- because that's the easiest place to work so he started ask for work and got a job at the railroad gang. And these four people I talked about, all was in the same gang. And they kept up the friendship all the time and in Yakima, which is, which is little ways from the railroad gang. My dad didn't like working in a railroad gang so he started a business. He started a laundry. And then his place was, as far as I understand, a place for all the lost, lost Japanese. And they used to have, every weekend they used to have udon and all kinds of stuff. I'm pretty sure some sake, but they had a good time.

<Begin Segment 4>

DG: Now this is when, still when he was single?

BU: When he was single, yeah. And then, and then a couple years after that, 1914, he made arrangements to get married to my mother.

DG: And she is from...

BU: She is from Toyama. She was in the house he lived in while he was going to high school.

DG: Okay.

BU: That's how it was.

DG: Oh, I see. I see. It wasn't your grandmother, it was your mother that you were talking about.

BU: My mother, yeah, yeah. So that, it's an interesting story. So my dad was a strong person, anything he goes, goes... even in the war just before he left to go to Puyallup he got up, and says, "You people, Damatte. Shizuka ni shi, mo shikatta ga nai koto. Dame dakara, so shikaranai de yukoto kikanakutte wa ikenai."

DG: Uh-huh.

BU: Yeah, we all did anytime. In fact, when my brother told Dad that he didn't want to go to college, he looked him in the eye, and he said, "You're my son and you are going to go to college and you go." So that's how he went to UW. I was going to go anyway, but he, he made my brother go.

[Interruption]

BU: And they had a number of kids. So therefore, he, he had a Japanese school. It's a funny thing you talk about it because I just met somebody that was his pupil.

DG: In Yakima?

BU: Tossie Yamaguchi. She was his pupil. She said, "Your father was my Japanese school teacher."

DG: So the Japanese set up Japanese schools wherever they went, didn't they?

BU: Wherever they... I think that's very good, because they didn't want to lose the flavor of being Japanese.

<Begin Segment 5>

DG: So, when did your father get married?

BU: Got married in 1913, I think, because the first baby came in 1914, so can't make it more.

DG: Then at that time he was still planning to go back to Japan.

BU: No, he was planning, he was planning to stay there.

DG: Oh, by then.

BU: By then. Because he was always, he had a group of people that I suppose depended upon him because he's the only one that had a, had a big house, and they all had all their meetings and everything there. It was very nice for us, too, because some of the lonely, loner, men adopted us -- I'm talking about me, I'm a male, they didn't adopt females -- and then they, they took us on a bike ride to Wapato and other places, and played ball with us. So it was nice.

DG: So you were born what year now?

BU: I was born in 1918, right in the middle of the, middle of the flu epidemic, the pan, pan world flu epidemic, in which so many thousands, millions of people died. And you know, ordinarily if a mother goes into the hospital for delivery, she stayed for two or three days. They, they kicked Mom out in half a day because they said it's too dangerous to be in the hospital because of flu. So that... I found out another thing, too, recently, the fact that the Saint Elizabeth Hospital in Yakima is a Providence Hospital, the one I was, I've been connected with all my life. So, anyway, it kind of runs around. [Laughs]

DG: It does. So then how long did you live in Yakima?

BU: I lived only eight years. What happened was this, the fact that because Mom and Dad had, had the laundry and it was so busy that they couldn't take care of all four kids so they took the two oldest one and send them to Grandma in Japan to raise.

DG: So you were number three?

BU: No, I was number four.

DG: You're number four.

BU: Number three and four were the youngest. My sister lives in New York and us were the only ones that stayed, and they sent the two older ones to Japan. They're Kibeis.

DG: So you had an older brother born in 1914 and then you had a sister born...

BU: 1915.

DG: '15. And then your sister, another sister.

BU: Another sister in '16 and me in '18, yeah. So that's what happened.

DG: Well, tell us a little bit about why they send your, the kids to Japan.

BU: Well, I presume they sent them over because four kids in a busy laundry, laundry business, just couldn't take care of them.

DG: But it's not just that, because other people sent them, too. Was it mostly because they were busy?

BU: Well, they are busy with work or what have you.

DG: But what about preparation to go back to Japan?

BU: Just ship them. Mother or father went with them, I presume.

<Begin Segment 6>

DG: Then, so then you lived in Yakima eight years.

BU: Yeah.

DG: And so you started school there.

BU: I started school in Yakima. By the time, by the time that Grandma wanted us to come over to see her, I was already, already in the fifth grade.

DG: So how much of a community was there in Yakima?

BU: Oh, there were about thirty or forty.

DG: Families?

BU: Yeah.

DG: Did you all get together or did you have your own ken things there, too?

BU: They all got together, just to, getting together.

DG: Like picnics?

BU: Picnic or whatever you want to call it, but most of all I remember is noodles, soba.

DG: That everybody came to your father's house.

BU: Came to father house and we all had soba, which was nice.

DG: And talked.

BU: Yeah. And then we'd always once a year have a picnic in the summer. We go up to one of the, one of the medium size mountain, and we have a picnic on top.

DG: So were there other Japanese businesses there?

BU: There was a couple of hotels.

DG: Then the rest were farmers.

BU: Yeah, the rest were farmers. Farmers... there's a little town called Wapato. It's just about ten miles away from Yakima. They had more Japanese because they had more farmers, and they did very well. Most of them are still my friends.

DG: So does the thirty families include Wapato? That's just Yakima?

BU: Yeah, well, I think, I think you'd have to increase the number if you include Wapato.

DG: Was there a church there at that time?

BU: Huh?

DG: Was there a church there at that time?

BU: I don't know. I can't remember.

DG: A Japanese church?

BU: I can't remember.

DG: But at least your father started the language school.

BU: Yeah, yeah. It might be that the church was there, that's why you can start the school. Anyway, his laundry when it wasn't running in business is a lot of room.

DG: Well, so was it mostly hakujin clientele?

BU: I think so. You see, all the railroad, railroad laundry came there.

DG: Okay.

BU: So he did very well. He made a lot of money. At least that's what I figured.

<Begin Segment 7>

DG: So then when you were eight years old you went to Japan.

BU: Yeah, yeah. Grandma wanted to see the other two, so we went, we went back.

DG: Did he sell his business?

BU: Huh?

DG: Did he sell his business to go?

BU: No, he, the business he leased to somebody, but he was going to Japan and get all his money and go into business in Japan. So I presume he went there with the idea of staying there, but he was smart enough to leave himself a little lifeline. In other words, he put enough money aside so all four kids, (Dad) and Mom (...) could come back. So when the time came to do that he had money to get a passage here to this country.

DG: So how long did you stay in Japan?

BU: Two years.

DG: So did you think of yourself as American at that time?

BU: More or less, I think. Because I, I only spoke English. But in school -- the two years of school -- I spoke very good Japanese.

DG: Was there, now, maybe in two places, was there prejudice in Yakima?

BU: No, I never felt it.

DG: But what about going to Japan, since you were American?

BU: No.

DG: You didn't feel that either?

BU: No, we didn't feel anything because, you know, it was my brother. My brother was a -- do you know what a gakidaisho is -- toughy. I had to go to school in Japan and if somebody spoke bad to me or pushed me, he go and punch them, punch them in the nose. [Laughs]

DG: So he was already there?

BU: He was already there.

DG: So how long had he been there?

BU: Oh, he'd been there about five or six years. He was already in junior high school, and he used to come down and the junior high school was right next to the elementary school so he used to come and beat the whole of them. [Laughs]

<Begin Segment 8>

DG: So what did you think of Japan?

BU: Huh?

DG: What did you think of Japan when you went?

BU: Well, I had a good time. You know the things I liked most? When they went on outing. About once or twice a month we go on a one-day outing. We'd go out walking or what have you, and I remember, the thing I remember about it most, for lunch, they'd Grandma, Mom, would make onigiri, okii nigiri. I get two of those and then you take that with you and then you get to eat it in between. Onigiri with umeboshi and nori on the outside.

DG: So this was in the Toyama-shi?

BU: Toyama, yeah. Usually a short distance away.

DG: So you got to go on outings, and what else did you do as far as...

BU: I was, I was on the track team and I was on the baseball team. I was a pitcher in the baseball team. I had a good time.

<Begin Segment 9>

DG: So did you want to stay there?

BU: Huh?

DG: Did you want to stay in Japan?

BU: No, because what happened. You see, the reason why I went to school is the fact that Pop got sick, Dad got sick, and he had to stay, stay in bed. And it was a prolonged illness, a little over a year, so he said, he said, "Instead of doing nothing, you guys go to school." So all four of us went to school.

DG: So you were there a couple years, right?

BU: Yeah, couple years. And my brother and my older sister, they were there for eight or nine years, eight to ten years, close to.

DG: So then how come you decided to come back again?

BU: Because, you see, Father, Father had a business venture. Later on the Japanese had Olympic Games there in 1958 or something. Well, on that Olympic Game they were supposed to have it way back in 1930 or something, but, you see, with all those things happening with the Chinese, that the Japanese invading China and everything else, they refused to give them the Olympic Game. My father had a, and a friend had a good idea that they were going to make apartments or units for dormitory for Olympic athletes, and they bought the property, and they're building, going to build a, build a dormitory space. Well, when the, when the Olympic Committee refused to give the permit to have Olympic game in Japan that folded so, therefore, he came back. On top of that, I got sick so, therefore, he decided kaero, so he came back.

[Interruption]

DG: We were talking about your period of time when you were in Japan, okay, and that was a couple years, around 1925, '24?

BU: 1927 to '29. You see, I was, we just got there in 1927 when this present emperor was born. They had a great celebration for that male heir. I remember that was a good time. I had a lot of fun.

DG: Uh-huh. So Hirohito's son, huh? Akihito, is that what his name is? Akihiro?

BU: Not Hiro, Hito. Akihito.

DG: Akihito, uh-huh. And then you decided to come back to the United States why?

BU: I didn't, my dad did. My dad said we're going back, so came back after two years.

DG: And you didn't mind?

BU: I didn't mind, neither did my brother, neither did the brother and sister that was there from before.

<Begin Segment 10>

DG: Why did, why did you think coming back was good?

BU: Well, coming back, you had all your school friends and all that.

DG: So you thought of yourself as American.

BU: That's okay, yeah.

DG: And so were you a foreigner there in Japan?

BU: Huh?

DG: Were you a foreigner in Japan?

BU: Yeah, well, they treated you like foreigners.

DG: What do they do to treat you that way?

BU: Ignore you or they beat you up.

DG: That's what I was wondering, if they...

BU: And my brother prevented that by beating them up. [Laughs]

DG: So you came back.

BU: Funny thing, though, you talk about that. I now got in my mind who beat me up regularly. The guy was called Numa, Numa. He used to beat me up all the time, but my brother used to beat him up regular.

DG: Fist fight?

BU: He just slapped him and hit him around. You see, he was taking kendo too, so he uses anything that, anything that hurts. But, you see, in school there is always what they call gakidaisho, bully, and he was, Numa was one of the bullies. And the bad part about all that was the fact that I'm looking at it backwards now. You see, Mother, when she took us, she took only American clothes back to Japan, no Japanese clothes or things that Japanese citizens wear. So I was wearing American clothes, Amerikajin, so they used to pick on me, beat me up. So, anyway, that's the life we lived back there, yeah.

DG: The girls, too?

BU: Huh?

DG: What did they do to the girls?

BU: Girls? I don't know about the girls, but girls -- I'm not so sure whether Hanna had more, more American clothes like I did. May have, but, you see, girls are a little bit different, I guess. Anyway, because she was a good, good athlete and she became top gal in the track team. She was, she was the best athlete in the whole state, the Yoshia state, Toyama-ken. She became number one, number one athlete in the ken. So I suppose that kept them off her back.

DG: So when you guys got in trouble like that, what did your parents say?

BU: Well, actually they never said a thing because Tom was taking care of it, my brother.

DG: That's your brother.

BU: He just beat them up.

DG: You guys sound like you're bullies. [Laughs]

BU: Huh?

DG: You guys must have been bullies, too.

BU: Yeah. It was a lot of fun, though.

DG: So you look upon that period of time as pretty much fun, you were saying.

BU: Yeah. You know what, I think because that period of time I think I act like a Kibei because the two years I spent there, because that was two years' time when Japan was extremely militaristic.

DG: So what does a Kibei think?

BU: Kibei... my mother had, my brother had no objections about invading, invading China, Manchuria, and Korea because 1910 Japan invaded Korea and took over Korea. So there was friction anyway, but, but then Korea, they took over Korea so that was good for them. So my brother, Tom, and the rest of the gang never thought nothing of it, I don't think. He never said anything.

DG: So you say being Kibei means that you learn how to be militaristic?

BU: You learn to be Japanese and in Japanese you follow what the leaders say.

DG: And Japanese is the superior country?

BU: So they think, but that isn't always true.

DG: But that's what they thought?

BU: Yeah.

<Begin Segment 11>

DG: Okay. Let's get to the United States then. What did your...

BU: What did I do?

DG: Right. So where did you come?

BU: I was born in Yakima, 1918.

DG: And then you went to Japan.

BU: Then went to Japan for two years and came back to Seattle.

DG: To Seattle.

BU: The reason for coming back to Seattle... we got off the boat in Seattle here, and my dad's friend who used to work for him in Yakima at the laundry was here. And he says, "You'd be better off if your family stays here, and well, I'll help you get a dye works place, that's what I have, and you could learn to do those. I'll teach you and you'll be better here." So we had a place right near Broadway High School and equal distance, two blocks away to grade school so that's what enticed Father to stay and open up, open up a dye work place in Seattle right near the high school and the grammar school.

DG: So then you were about fifth grade then, sixth grade?

BU: Fifth grade, yeah.

DG: And you went to Summit School?

BU: Yeah, Summit School. You know Summit School?

DG: Uh-huh.

BU: That where you went?

DG: I didn't go there, but I live near there.

BU: I went to Summit School from fourth grade to eighth grade, then I went to Broadway up the street, three blocks.

DG: So were there Japanese people at Summit?

BU: I don't remember any, but Broadway there was 500.

DG: So then your friends were hakujin friends when you came back here?

BU: Yeah, I had a bunch of hakujin friends, but not very many because, well, all during my high school days and college days, my best friend was a hakujin man, guy, fellow. I used to have, in order to make extra money, I used to deliver newspapers, but some of the time I couldn't deliver it because I'm sick or I'm going somewhere. He would deliver it for me.

<Begin Segment 12>

DG: So you delivered newspapers and then... so then your friends were, friends were like hakujin friends?

BU: Hakujin or...

DG: But then did you go, here, when you came back here did you socialize with the Japanese community again?

BU: Yeah, because we went into sports and then Boy Scouts.

DG: Boy Scouts where?

BU: Came back and I went to Baptist church, Troop 53 Boy Scouts.

DG: That was all Japanese?

BU: Yeah, all Japanese. And then the Courier League baseball team, league, was all Japanese, and I went and played baseball. You know what? One thing that the Isseis did for us, they said that, "We're going to get athletic league, baseball, basketball, football, so you keep busy." The young people will be so busy they can't get in trouble, which is true. Back then they said Japanese is exemplary group, ethnic group, they never get into trouble. Well, that's fine for that period, but now we have to reestablish that thing. The Sansei thing that we talked about, we're trying to, I'm trying to get an athletic league started to keep these kids busy, keep them out of drugs, and having too much time to get in trouble because one of the thing that we have to worry about the Sansei is the drug scene. There is a lot more Nisei, Sanseis and Niseis into the drug scene than you will know. Most people do not know this. All you have to do is go up to the methadone clinic up on Thirty-fourth and East Union. Out of the fifty or sixty kids that go up there every day for their methadone dose, thirty-some odd are Nihonjin.

DG: No kidding.

BU: That's sad, really. And you know the sad part, they're kids of people I know very well, some of them.

DG: So you think that the Issei back then -- we're talking about the early '30s -- they had this vision that they needed to work with the young people?

BU: They did. I got to know Jim Sakamoto and he interviewed me on two, three occasions, partly when I graduated high school and then after I went to college, and we were talking about these things because he was talking to me to educate me, but also to get me to help. He says, "If you don't keep the kids busy doing something useful or something they like, they're going to get into things that they're not supposed to." You see, he spent a lot of his life in New York City, Jim Sakamoto, and he was a boxer. The reason why he became blind was because he got poked in the eye so much that he lost his eyesight. Anyway, so...

DG: Well, he had a really clear vision for the young people.

BU: He did. James Sakamoto was great. He did things that no one else did. The Japanese Chamber of Commerce did, too, but he was personal. He'd call you into his office and talk to you. So that another way he was trying to make it personal for him and you. The Japanese Issei people, a lot of them, they were great because know what the Nisei, Issei males what they did? Every Sunday, Saturday and Sunday, they go to different ball fields, like Columbia Playfield always had a game, Broadway Playfield always had. So they all, hundreds of them would come and watch them play. In other words, they are supporting the effort that you put in, and the newspaper did a great thing because I was watching. Every week I'd, I'd watch watch the...

DG: This is the Courier?

BU: Watch the Courier League, watch your, watch your batting average. The thing about the batting average that is so fascinating was the fact that at the time when the FBI investigated all of us, that character, that character that investigated me knew exactly what my batting average was. They told you, "Hey you, your batting average is too darn low so don't remember. Forget it." [Laughs] I never thought about this for fifty years, but I was thinking about it right now. He told me I was .225 or something. [Laughs]

DG: Boy, they really did a thorough job investigating you guys. [Laughs]

BU: Yeah, they knew everything, everything that I had.

<Begin Segment 13>

BU: And one of the things you asked me, "When did you notice you had intolerance in the American community?" You know, they still have Daughters of the American Revolution. They sponsored, sponsored in high school, high school time a debate. You supposed to go to this meeting and each would get a note as what subject matter you are supposed to write on or talk on. You know what, as soon as I got there, those characters went in a huddle, and they eliminated me right off the bat. They said, "No Japanese."

DG: No kidding? This is in high school?

BU: Huh?

DG: This is in high school?

BU: This is in high school. I tell you where they had the thing, they had it at the Cornish... not Cornish, Cornish School auditorium. That's where we were supposed to have it.

DG: So what did you think?

BU: Huh?

DG: What did you think when they did that?

BU: Well, I raised hell. [Laughs]

DG: Good.

BU: I'm usually not one to stay shut. Anyway, I walked out the door and I complained to the principal, but he says, "It's not my organization so I can't do anything. Sorry." Those are the days in which we also found out, say you went, they had a place called Trianon Ballroom. That's where they used to invite all those Kate Keiser and Tommy Dorsey and Goodman and rest to come there, and they make money because this is a dance hall. Well, those of us who were sophomore, junior in high school, all we wanted to do is go hear the guys play. So we get there and he says, "No Japs, no Japs. Get out of here."

DG: No kidding? Really?

BU: Yeah, they told us that. One day they did that to us at Paramount Theatre, too. But you see, we just want to just go up there in the balcony and listen to it. This happened more than once. So I said, that I tell Ruth and the rest of the people, "You don't know what it is to be intolerant because they didn't do that to you girls," maybe because the girls never got to go there and listen. But before the war, even before the war -- war was 1941 or '40 -- they still had the problem.

DG: Right, right.

<Begin Segment 14>

DG: Yeah. There was a lot of --

BU: During the days of the, after the war started and then people moved into camp, I got permission to go down to Minidoka, but in order you had to go all the way down to Walla Walla and then back up. Anyway...

DG: Let's stay with the high school time a little bit, 'cause there were some other things that happened that directed you towards your profession at that time.

BU: Well, I liked all the biology, sciences, and math so I did very well. You know what? We had three high schools: Franklin, Garfield, and Broadway. Every one of those schools, the top ten students were all Japanese.

DG: Even at that time?

BU: Even at that time. Right now what do you think the top students are? Vietnamese. In other words, minorities have to excel in order to get somewhere.

DG: Did you feel like you needed to excel?

BU: Yeah, I needed to be top dog, top, number one. And we were.

DG: This was on your own or did your parents say anything?

BU: No. I'll tell you the funny thing about whenever I get all A's and all that, my father and mother never tell that you did well or something. The only time you hear from them is when you get a B or a C or something else, they'd let you know that that's not acceptable.

DG: What did they say?

BU: Huh?

DG: What did they say?

BU: They, they take privileges away from you. [Laughs]

DG: Like?

BU: Like going to baseball game or something because my dad is a baseball fan. So he used to take me on Fourth of July and on Labor Day, he used to take us two days, two days of baseball game.

DG: Does he close the dye works or does he leave that to your mother? [Laughs] (Narr. note: Father was operating a dry cleaning shop at the time, not a dye works.)

BU: No. We just left on, left on Friday and came back on Sunday.

DG: And you travel all over?

BU: Huh?

DG: You travel all over?

BU: Yeah, traveled Seattle to Yakima.

<Begin Segment 15>

DG: So did you belong to one of the clubs, then?

BU: No. I was batboy for the Wapato Taiyo club.

DG: Back when you were...

BU: Back when, yeah. All during the time I was there.

DG: But you did play baseball and what was that?

BU: I played baseball in the Courier League, the Waseda Club.

DG: The Waseda?

BU: The Waseda Marmot. Marmot was just the name of our individual team.

DG: Before we forget, tell us about Mr. Yano.

BU: Oh, I joined the baseball team in 1932 and that was right after the Depression, and most families didn't have any money. So we were no different. We didn't have any money so they couldn't buy uniform for us. I was lucky to get a glove. I got a glove because I went into the dentist and for doing that I got a glove.

DG: I don't understand. Why would you get a glove?

BU: Because you didn't like dentist and you raise hell, so, therefore, you got a, you got a --

DG: You were a regular manipulator. [Laughs]

BU: I got a baseball glove in order to satisfy by having to sacrifice going to the dentist. But, anyway, so that... that was a --

DG: Well, so Mr. Yano, now.

BU: Mr. Yano, Mr. Yano knew that the whole team, the twenty-five, about twenty-five of us, knew that we didn't have...

DG: Now, what did he do?

BU: What he did, he went and put up money as well as to get other people to donate money so that one Sunday there was twenty-five boxes and we, each of us got a box. He knew how big you are, you are seven years or six years or so, so that we each got one that we can wear, and then we got a tennis shoe. So Mr. Yano, Yano give this because he was also baseball fan, too, but more than that, he wanted the Sanseis or us guys that were playing, play equal with the hakujin guys. He didn't want us to look shabby playing in the hakujin place and then playing a hakujin team. So I think it was pride more than almost anything else that made him do it, but also he knew that the rest of the, rest of the group were not as well-off as he is. He had just right around the corner here, he had a butcher shop and so that's the way it was. He was a good man.

DG: Well, a lot of Isseis had a lot of community-minded spirit.

BU: Yeah, all of them did. That's why they --

DG: Does that come from Japan or...

BU: Huh?

DG: Does that come from Japan?

BU: I'm not so sure. I think it was because here in this country they all got together because they're lonely. Like say, they had undokai, athletic event, and picnic up at Jefferson Golf, up there, up at Jefferson Golf Course. That was well-attended. The whole town attended that and they all looked forward to it every year. We did. And it was fun. But also in fun and everything else, but it also brought the community together that's why that Courier League worked so well because you already have, have something together.

<Begin Segment 16>

DG: So what role did, like, the Nikkeijinkai play?

BU: Huh?

DG: Like the Nikkeijinkai.

BU: The kenjinkai? I don't know what role, but it brought the leaders together in Nikkeijinkai. My good friend and surrogate father is named Kubota, H.T. Kubota. He was in the middle of all of it. You ever hear that name, Kubota?

DG: Oh, yeah. I mean, he had the paper, right?

BU: Yeah, he had newspaper and he bought a lot of property and so on. Most of the stuff that they do in Buddhist church, he was the one that contributed.

DG: I read one place that because of the exclusion act --

BU: Yeah.

DG: -- that there was a requirement that the Japanese register?

BU: Yeah.

DG: And then the Nikkeijinkais took care of that and that's what sort of made them strong.

BU: Oh, I don't know.

DG: Something like that.

<Begin Segment 17>

DG: Okay. Let's, what about the microscope?

BU: The microscope. Remember I was telling you that Father did one year of houseboy work at Dr. Kitasato, who was famous, world famous bacteriologist.

DG: This was when your father was young?

BU: Yeah.

DG: In Japan?

BU: Yeah in Japan, and he spent one year after he left high school, he went to Tokyo and became a houseboy with Dr. Kitasato. And then, and then back here when I was going to grade school and I professed an interest in science. And when I went to high school the year afterwards because I had a lot of projects I wanted to do and I needed a microscope so I egged him a little bit and finally, finally he gave me $283 to buy a microscope. And I got that and I had a lot of fun with it.

DG: Like you were what year in high school?

BU: I was starting in freshman, freshman, sophomore in high school.

DG: So did you know you were going to go into medicine by then?

BU: By then I knew I was going to be a doctor. Only one out of that class, the class of 500 and something, that got to be what he was going to be, what he wanted. That year that annual, the school annual put down, each one they put down, "Going to be this." And looking at the whole thing, I'm the only one that ever got to be what I wanted to be.

DG: No kidding? This is at Garfield?

BU: No, Broadway, Broadway High School. Broadway is an interesting place. They still got a Broadway Alumni Association and each year they give eight or nine thousand dollars to scholarships to the community college. Thinking about all that, you know, those are the little things, little by little, that influence you in how you behave or act in later life.

DG: It does, huh.

<Begin Segment 18>

DG: So you finish high school and you went to...

BU: Went to UW and then I graduated --

DG: Did you ever think of going anyplace else?

BU: No, I really haven't because, you know, funny, athletics is a funny thing. I used to go see the Husky football team every, every fall.

DG: Even before you got into the U?

BU: Yeah, yeah. And then, and then afterwards I came back. I didn't go to medical school here, I went to New York.

DG: Well, okay. So you went to the U and so you were in pre-med at the U?

BU: I was in pre-med, yeah.

DG: Okay. So was there any problem of getting into school at that time being Japanese or anything?

BU: Yeah, couldn't get into anything. I applied to seventy-two schools.

DG: This is later in medical school?

BU: But still, still we were all concerned about getting in. In fact, they weren't very favorable. We had what we call Pi Mu Kai, which is a pre-med club. I was getting kind of disgusted because all the kids I tutored to go take the exam, what they call pre-med exam, they all passed, and they all went to med school, but I never did. There weren't that many, there weren't that many Niseis taking pre-med. Very few of them got into med school, so it isn't just me. And then, then at the end of the, beginning of the war, the Quaker people helped us, these Japanese. They picked out ten, ten students that were doing pretty good and said, "Will you go to Moscow, Idaho, if you, if you are admitted there?" And said, they told, they gave us a big pitch about, "Camp isn't going to do you any good. It's going to be a waste of time so you better do something so we'll do it for you if you'll go." So I said okay, we'll go. So ten of us did. But when you got to Idaho, it was just the wrong time because they had the Bataan death march in Philippine Island and a lot of the, just the fact that the National Guard, Idaho National Guard, was there and a lot of them died. So the governor there said, "We can't possibly let these saboteurs come to our public state-backed university," so they kicked us out. And then the Quakers again took ten of us and said, the women, we're going to put them in jail for as long as we need it so they put them in jail. So the rest of us boys, we got shipped out to Quaker families and all that, and we had to do a little work and whatnot until about ten or twelve days later on, they got us into Pullman.

<Begin Segment 19>

DG: Okay, now you... there's a lot of details I want to know. Let's start back when they picked out the ten of you here. The war had already started. So...

BU: Yeah. It was about almost a year, ten months.

DG: Oh. Well, so what time are we talking about?

BU: You see, they picked us out in May. You were supposed to go to Puyallup on the 20th, twenty-something, of May.

DG: Okay. So, okay, now when the war started --

BU: Yeah.

DG: -- you were at the U.

BU: Yeah.

DG: And what was your feeling?

BU: It was terrible. I tell you exactly where we were. My brother and I were down, down there at the public library studying. You know why? You see, we didn't have room enough at the house where we were living. There was four, four kids and mother, and father so six were living in the back end of the dry cleaning place.

DG: Oh, you were living behind your business.

BU: Behind and so there wasn't much room so, therefore, every Saturday and Sunday we'd go down to the public library to study. So that's what happened.

DG: And that's where you were?

BU: That's where we were when the war started.

DG: Did you know the war might come?

BU: Well, no, I didn't know the war was going to come, but sure found out in a hurry because two things happened: one, the hakujins all ignored you. They looked at you, gave you a dirty look, and when we found out, we left, we left the building to come back home. And then first thing, though, there was a place we used to always get hamburger because it's only ten cents so we came out to hamburger and they wouldn't serve you.

DG: No kidding?

BU: Yeah.

DG: So what did you think might happen to you?

BU: Well, he says, "They can't do anything to us, we're American citizens," that's what he said. That's what I was telling my brother. My brother, who's Kibei, said, "No, no." Kibei, he is going to be ostracized anyway. As long as they know he is Kibei, they'll put him in somewhere. But, anyway, it's only February when the, when President Roosevelt wrote the edict.

DG: Right.

BU: That the camp we're going to be.

DG: And then so you continued to school until May.

BU: Until May, yeah.

<Begin Segment 20>

DG: And then ten of you got picked out?

BU: Yeah.

DG: Okay. And so who did this? Was Floyd Schmoe involved?

BU: Floyd Schmoe, Floyd Schmoe and Dr. O'Brien. Dr. O'Brien was a professor of sociology or anthropology, and Floyd Schmoe was a minister, Quaker minister.

DG: Okay. And so what did they tell you to do?

BU: They said, "You'll waste time going to camp."

DG: Well, that part, but as far as getting ready to go? So you just...

BU: No, we just got, we just got one hour or less to make up our mind.

DG: Oh, and so then they picked you up in a van or car?

BU: No, no.

DG: How did you go?

BU: We had to get there ourselves.

DG: Oh, get to Moscow yourself?

BU: No, no, no. We had to get to the railroad station.

DG: So how did you get there?

BU: On a train.

DG: No. To the railroad station, 'cause it was curfew, right?

BU: Yeah, curfew. My friend, talk about Yano, George Yano, the son who is my best friend, he took -- he is the only one that had a car so he took me to the railroad station after curfew.

DG: So did you, how did you go then? I mean...

BU: In a car.

DG: You weren't picked up?

BU: In his car after curfew and got picked up.

DG: So you didn't have to hide or anything?

BU: No, no, I didn't. Not there. But we had to hide after we got to Moscow. We went to a farmer's house.

DG: Okay. You got in the train and then you went to Moscow.

BU: Yeah.

DG: By, all ten of you.

BU: Yeah, yeah.

DG: Okay. And so what happened in the train?

BU: Nothing happened in the train. After we got to Moscow, that's when they refused us.

DG: Okay. So you got off the train and who met you?

BU: Well, one of their officials. Moscow.

DG: The Friends?

BU: No, University of Idaho official.

DG: Oh, okay. And then the --

BU: The Quakers are strong enough that they can make all this arrangements, and they told the Quaker that they're not accepting us.

DG: Okay. So you weren't accepted and so then you had to hide.

BU: You had to hide for ten days.

DG: So how did you do, how did you hide?

BU: Well, the different one, the two of the girls went to jail and got, stayed, stayed in jail for ten days.

DG: And that was better than other places? [Laughs]

BU: Well, they said that it takes too much work to look after two girls on a farm.

DG: Oh, and then the rest of you went to a farm.

BU: Yeah, each one of us went to a farm.

DG: A Quaker farm? Okay.

BU: Quaker farm, preferably.

<Begin Segment 21>

DG: And you stayed there for...

BU: Two weeks.

DG: And you told me some stories about learning about farming.

BU: Yeah, yeah. I learned how to, how to collect eggs. They had 30,000 eggs, the chickens laying eggs. So first thing in the morning at four o'clock in the morning we went around collecting eggs, and then, and then we had a few minutes before breakfast so, therefore, I learned how to cut asparagus. I never knew that asparagus popped out of the ground like that. And then, and then one of my other jobs I did first thing before I even went out to pick eggs is because my partner, my partner, collecting eggs, too. So he said he can collect eggs while you go and milk goats. I had three goats to milk.

DG: First time you'd ever done that.

BU: Huh?

DG: First time you'd ever done anything like that.

BU: First time. In fact, I didn't know, I didn't know that the chicken laid eggs standing up because I put my hand in there, and I got egg in my palm of my hand.

DG: And then you had to kill some chickens.

BU: Huh?

DG: You had to kill some chickens.

BU: No, I didn't. We never had to kill any chickens, but I ate a lot of chickens because two more mouths to feed, chickens are easy to feed.

<Begin Segment 22>

DG: So you stayed there for ten days.

BU: For about ten days, two weeks. And then the Quaker people had made arrangements with Washington State College to admit us there so we all went there.

DG: And then so you were on campus there?

BU: Uh-huh, yeah.

DG: So are we talking about summer or...

BU: Oh, this was in June.

DG: June. And then you went to Washington State and then what happened?

BU: Washington State, because you're not home and you have no money so you got to work. In the beginning I worked for twenty-five cents an hour scrubbing walls and scrubbing floors, what have you. But then, then I got an eight hour a day job the following fall.

DG: Were you going to school?

BU: Going to school, going eight hours, working eight hours, because you had to have money in order to afford your dormitory or your... most of the time it was nice because you see, Washington State is a college town so there is a lot of single rooms in families. They rented them out.

DG: So you stayed with a family?

BU: Yeah, I stayed with a family. I can't remember the name of the family, but they were very nice to us. And that's where, that's where I met my brother-in-law. Ruth's brother was there, was there at Pullman, too.

DG: He was one of the ten?

BU: He wasn't one of the ten, but he got somehow pulled in. So we were there.

DG: What was his name?

BU: Byron.

DG: Ruth's maiden name was what?

BU: Yoshino.

DG: Okay. Now this is, we're talking about Ruth, your wife, but we'll get to that in a little bit. Okay. So you were at Pullman and you were taking still pre-med?

BU: Huh?

DG: You're still in pre-med?

BU: Still in pre-med.

DG: And how many years did you have left?

BU: What I did was, might as well do something so I took three years of post-graduate work in pharmacology. I forget why [inaudible] but I took pharmacology.

<Begin Segment 23>

DG: Okay. So in the meantime, were you applying for med school?

BU: For the first two years I applied and I got disappointed, and then you had to pay $25 every time you send in, send in the application. And I wrote on there and I said, "If you're not going to consider me on equal with all the others, don't bother sending me an application back." There was one, one doctor from West Virginia. I think his name was Jordan. He was a hematologist. He says, he wrote me and he handwrote this letter and he says that, "Wars don't last forever. If you want to, if you want to go to medical school after the war is over, write me a letter, and I will seriously consider it," because my grades were good. They were better than most of 'em. So that's the only letter that made me feel good, that this professor, a dean of the med school in West Virginia, was good enough to write a letter, but all the others said, "No." Then the last year I was there, one month before, before I was going to go into the army because the army drafted me about '43, '44, and they gave me, they told me to get a physical, which I did, and then they went to... they said, draft board says, "Well, you're going to advanced basic training and then you'll be in the army." But I decided well, I'll try this one. Found out about this private medical school in Rochester, New York, so I applied there and three weeks I had an acceptance. So I took the letter to the draft board, and they gave me a deferment to go to medical school.

DG: Because you told them that...

BU: Yeah, medical school.

DG: No, but what did you say to them? You were telling me you convinced them that they would be better off.

BU: Yeah, better off if they -- doctors were very badly necessary. They needed a particular, they didn't understand that they are going to get into the Korean War. So that I finished medical school and then they were going to ship me directly out to, to Korea, and I told them, "You know what? You'd be better off if I went to internship. I'd be more trained." They said, "You're right. Okay. We'll defer you for two years," because it's unusual that you're a intern for two whole years, but my school was a little different. My school was kind that was trying to make the best family doctors they could find. I mean, that was the orientation.

DG: This was in Rochester?

BU: Yeah, medical school. Dr. John Romano, who was my boss, he's a psychiatrist. But anyway, he arranged with me that I can use force with the draft board so they let me have two years training, but with the understanding that, "More likely you'll be going, at the end of the two years, you'll be going to Korea." Okay. But, anyway, so that I stayed in Rochester for two more years for a total of six.

<Begin Segment 24>

BU: And then about the end of, end of the time I was finishing my internship, I got a telephone call from a guy by the name of Bob Bruce. Bob Bruce was from Rochester, but had came to the UW and UW had started a medical school, and he called me and says, "Why don't you come home?" he told me. I said, "Oh?" Said, "All right." He said, "I'll appoint you as one of the medical residents with the UW medical school." And then he said, "You finish that and you finish what you have to do and then you can come back and become my cardiac fellow in cardiology." So, hey, that sounds good. So I came, I came here and as soon as I got here, they're after me already to the draft. So that after I finish, finish my first year in what they call medical residency, which is a specialty training period, they, they ordered me to get to basic training and then go directly on to Korea, but I got, I got deferred the one year again because I had training. And I tried to use the same thing: if you got more training, you'll be more useful. And then I was supposed to go September 1. On September 1 it was predated that you were already in the army around the 25th of August. I blossomed out with jaundice and hepatitis, so, therefore, they said, "Okay. We got to put you in the hospital." So I got put up in the Madigan Army Hospital and I stayed there five months.

[Interruption]

DG: What years are we talking about?

BU: We're talking about 1944.

DG: Okay. That you went to Rochester and then you stayed there for six years.

BU: (...) Six years.

DG: And then you came back here for a residency.

BU: Yeah.

DG: At the U.

BU: Residency here at the University of Washington.

DG: And so then is it 1950 by the time, August, that we are talking?

BU: Yeah, we're talking about August, '51.

DG: '51.

BU: Because I spent one year at the university in residency.

DG: And then, so then you were already inducted into the army, '51, and then you came down with jaundice.

BU: Yeah, right. So I got over the trouble in Madigan Army Hospital, and the day that I got, I got discharged from the hospital, I had orders to go to advanced training. And then same time after you finish advance training in three weeks, I was supposed to report to Travis Air Force Base, California to go to Korea.

DG: So how do you think you got the hepatitis?

BU: Well, I know that because at the, at the hospital we had two patients that worked at the blood bank. Both of, both of them had severe hepatitis and both of them died. So they were my patients by choice or otherwise, but I must have stuck myself somehow. You've heard of hepatitis B? I had hepatitis B, that's why I got deferred for that thing.

<Begin Segment 25>

DG: Okay. So when we, before we go on to Korea, let's back up and get married here. [Laughs] So you met --

BU: Well, I got married three months before I graduated medical school. You see, (Ruth's brother) was my roommate in college Washington State...

DG: Was her brother.

BU: Brother, so he says, "When you get back there, come and, come and see me because I get date with your sister." [Laughs] That's how it happened. So I went there and I -- oh, about a year, year and half, I guess, every holiday come along, Christmas, can't come back here, it's too far so, therefore, I went there.

DG: This is in Cleveland, right?

BU: Cleveland, Ohio.

DG: And so you went to visit the family.

BU: Yeah, family, and then, and then they had only one girl. So all during the time I was there, it was her job to entertain me, I guess. That was all right.

DG: Okay. And so you got married in 1949, I think you said.

BU: Yeah.

DG: So then she stayed here while you went to Korea?

BU: Yeah, right. She stayed, she stayed here or in Cleveland when I went to Korea.

DG: Was she here when you came to the residency, then you were married already?

BU: Yeah, we were married already. We got married --

DG: And you had a child by then.

BU: Uh-huh, that's right. We had my oldest boy. You know, that's kind of funny when you think about it, it's almost fifty years. This coming year it will be fifty years. This year we will have our fiftieth.

<Begin Segment 26>

DG: So, let's talk about Korea.

BU: Yeah. Korea was a fascinating experience. I wouldn't miss that for any money because it was that, it was that important in my life. You see, in Korea, a MASH hospital -- well, there was four MASH hospitals in the entire, all of Korea and each one had a specialty kind of cases that they, like if you had brain case, you are sent to one. If you had to have plastic surgery, you went to another one. Ours, if you had, if you had what we call hemorrhagic fever, which is special disease that's (viral disease). It's very much like... right now in Africa they had this eco-virus, or they have a very bad viral disease that's deadly. We had one in Korea called hemorrhagic fever, and I was in and we saw lots of hemorrhagic fever. Very much like that one they have, eco-virus they have now in South Africa. And so we were in charge of that so we saw all the patients with this hemorrhagic fever.

DG: So what city was that in?

BU: Huh?

DG: What city was that?

BU: This was all of Korea so that the army was, was in charge of it. And one of the problems that the army had, also one of the syndrome that occurred with hemorrhagic fever is they go into kidney failure. That's why they came to us because we had the kidney machine, and then, because I was the one of only two internists. They put all the problems in our lap and said, "You learn how to run that machine."

DG: So that was the early days of the kidney machine.

BU: That's right. Early days was called Klopf model. It's a cumbersome thing and I learned to use it and that's why I got stuck there. When my tour of duty finishes they kept me because they say, "You can't go because we got the kidney machine, and you're the only one that knows how to run it," so I got stuck. That was all right.

DG: But you were saying that you thought it had something to do with your being Japanese, too.

BU: Yeah, well, I think because I was Japanese, and number two, I got hepatitis and got free army time of five months. I really think it was still a carryover from World War II because we had very few Japanese doctors in the army overseas. So I figured that that's... it may have played a role.

<Begin Segment 27>

BU: You know, when I was there in the MASH hospital after the war was finished in '53 or '54, I had a Korean clinic. I had a lot of fun with the Korean clinic. It was just like, just same being a family doctor. I used to see 105 to 110 patients every day. I took care of three orphanage homes and I talked, I talked the nurses to come with me. I used to have, usually have two, three nurses come with me to take care of the orphanage, three orphanage homes.

DG: Were these American nurses?

BU: Huh?

DG: American nurses?

BU: No, no. These are Korean, Korean nurses because they had a lot of casualties so, therefore, they had a lot of families with orphans. And I managed to furnish the food to the barrel, fifty pound barrel of dried milk. I don't know if they ever use the gallon, fifty gallon barrel, of salted wieners. I never ate a salted wiener in all the time I was there. We used to always get salted wieners, but I never ate any. And then we'd get antibiotics and everything else and bring it with us. It was a lot of penicillin. So that, so that at least to the Koreans, I did a lot of good. When I got finished with Korea, the Korean military gave me one little piece saying, "Thank you for all the things you did." That's it.

<Begin Segment 28>

DG: Now, we ended with your being in Korea.

BU: Coming back, yeah. I came back and then I had one more year of training to do for my board in medical internal medicine. So I came and I, because the VA Hospital is easy access because of army so, therefore, they took me in. And I spent one year, one year, and I got finished my residency training. And when I finished my residency training, the University Medical School asked me whether I wanted to take two years more fellowship in nephrology. So that was agreeable with me so I put two more years in training in nephrology, and I was part of the team that started this kidney dialysis program here. You know, it took me nineteen years of training from college to open my office.

DG: So when did you open your office?

BU: Huh? Yeah, before I could open my office.

DG: So what year was that, then?

BU: 1955. No, wait a minute. Excuse me, 1957. So it took me nineteen years before I opened the office. Ruth's complaint was gee whiz, you told me we'd be all right and raising a family and all that after, after about seven or eight years, but it took me nineteen years of training in post-graduate training in order to open an office.

DG: So where did you open your office?

BU: Right here. Well, it was right here, Fourteenth Avenue and Yesler. I opened an office and I stayed there for one year and then...

DG: So how come you opened it there?

BU: Huh?

DG: How come you opened it there?

BU: This dentist, the family had an open office there so I stayed there for one year. And then, and then this corner here, you know where State Drug Store was? Right next door was open and Lonnie Saiki, who built the building, asked me if I wanted to come in and start an office there so I said, "I'd like that. That would be nice," so I went there and I stayed there for thirty-two years.

<Begin Segment 29>

DG: So what were your thoughts at that time as far as your practice goes?

BU: Practice? As long as I was with, with the kidney team. In the very beginning we didn't have a kidney center where they did dialysis so you had to go to a hospital to get the dialysis. So I used to go all over the city of Seattle, and it took twelve hours to dialyze and break it down and bring it back here. So we couldn't, I couldn't open an office so I closed the office while I was doing dialysis. But the bad part is I never got paid for any of the things I did by research or otherwise. So two years I was out of commission.

DG: Even after you opened your office?

BU: That's right.

DG: So what kind of hours did you have at your office, then?

BU: The office didn't have any office hours while I was doing dialysis in the hospitals.

DG: So that was around '57? Never got paid.

BU: Huh?

DG: We're talking about 1957.

BU: Yeah, 1957, '58.

DG: And the dialysis was like at Providence or the University?

BU: Providence, Swedish, Virginia Mason, Harborview, everywhere.

DG: Well, so who supervised this whole thing?

BU: My boss.

DG: Who was that?

BU: Dr. Belding Scribner.

DG: And he was, his office was where?

BU: He was the Professor of Nephrology at the University of Washington Medical School.

DG: And you went into this nephrology because of your experience with the kidney machine.

BU: The kidney machine in Korea and then I went and took two years of fellowship, and then after finishing the nephrology fellowship, I was supposed to open an office, but it never worked that way.

DG: So were some of those patients that were in dialysis your patients?

BU: No, not many. Most of them came whoever had problem.

DG: Well, then, what was your job as far as the...

BU: Running the dialysis machine.

DG: And what did that entail?

BU: That entailed watching that machine for ten hours. [Laughs] And the only other job I had, I was -- did you see that the Times... Life Magazine, which they had ten guys, ten guys with hoods on making a decision as to whether this person gets on dialysis or not. It means either you live or you die. I was one of those ten guys that we met once a week.

DG: Where did you meet?

BU: We usually in the hospital.

DG: At Providence?

BU: At Providence or Swedish and we decide somebody would present the patient and team would see what kind of patient it is. The one I remember most is... one was a twenty-five-year-old boy, but he was delinquent, and then the opposite to him was a woman, thirty-something, who had four kids. You had to choose one or the other and we felt that this woman would be more appropriate than the delinquent twenty-five year-old so we took it. The delinquent died and this mother with four kids, she came to the twenty-fifth reunion of all the patients we had on dialysis. Saved, to see what they did with their life. It was very interesting. It was a, it was a reception or thing of what happened to all our patients that we dialyzed. There was one guy who was a professor of mathematics from back in Pennsylvania somewhere. He came to the damn thing. Well, here we saved this guy's life and he still a professor and still teaching. So, therefore, what happened is the fact that all those things after the fact, you show that we did some good. By that time we started, we started the kidney dialysis center.

DG: So there were just maybe a few, one or two dialysis machines in the city, probably, in the beginning.

BU: Yeah. They finally got, all those other places have ten or fifteen dialysis machines.

DG: And so did you continue to --

BU: No, I didn't. Ruth said that I done enough so we quit. I quit.

<Begin Segment 30>

DG: Well, you had some other connections with Providence.

BU: Huh?

DG: You had some other connection with Providence, not just the dialysis.

BU: Yeah. I sent all my patient to Providence and then once you start doing that on succession, you become member of committee, become chairman of certain committees that you want to be in. So you got more and more involved in Providence, and I liked, I liked Providence for Japanese.

DG: Why?

BU: Because they are nice to them, kind to them, and they weren't all money, money, money. You see, Providence Hospital, sure they want you to pay, but they could be nice about it, too. Swedish was not very nice. And Virginia Mason. The only places I ever, place I had patients is Virginia Mason, Swedish and Providence.

<Begin Segment 31>

DG: Let's talk a little bit about your private practice.

BU: My private practice, it starts off back when I was an intern. Dr. John Romano, who's a psychiatrist and also an internist, he drove everything into us, the fact that, "You're doctors, you're supposed to do good. You're to serve them, serve those who need it."

DG: He's the one in Rochester.

BU: Rochester, yeah. You see, as psychiatrist he has a different point of view. But, anyway, that's how he indoctrinated. There were sixteen doctors who were willing to put up two years of, two years of internship time to become better doctors, supposedly. Well, anyway, but anyway he inculcated us us as general practitioner or family doctor, and we all, we all ended up that way. We all family doctors.

DG: So were you planning to make it a all-Japanese practice?

BU: Well, it ended up that way because number one, I spoke fluent Japanese so, therefore, all our Isseis gravitated to me. This was nice about my Keiro job is the fact that they were all, most of them, somehow or another had seen me as their doctor sometime in their life. And so that Keiro, when these patients come to Keiro, they were your patients sometime in the past so that makes it nice, both Niseis and Isseis.

DG: Were there any special things that you had to consider by working in the Japanese community?

BU: No. They just came because I spoke Japanese, because they said it's like going, getting Sansei or Nisei, either they don't speak it or else they can't understand it.

DG: What about your own social network then, did you have to do more kosai in the Japanese community because of it or anything?

BU: No, it didn't. You can keep your medical life and your other community life different. I never objected to the community, community thing because that was part of my life, and I got involved in all kinds of things. I had fun.

DG: Who were some of your first patients that you remember?

BU: First patient? You know Sam Shoji? He's one of my first early patients. And then all my other patients, Shiro Kashino, Joe Nakatsu, they're all my, one of my early patients.

DG: Don't use any names, but tell me about the incident about the gun.

BU: Gun? Oh. Well, the wife of the man -- he's my, he's one of my cares at Keiro now -- but that was very interesting because the father had bought, bought a movie house up on Beacon Hill, and his competitor was Kokusai, Mr. Kitamura. He bought, he wrote to Toyo and other Japanese companies in Japan and said, "Don't rent him any, any films because he is competing against me." So they wouldn't let him have 'em, and then the father got mad and decided, decided that he's going to go down there and change that by killing him. And so it was very funny. The wife, mother -- the one that's sick up at Keiro now -- called me up and say, [Inaudible]. So I went over there -- it was only two blocks away -- with my bag, you know, and then he was waving a gun around, and then she told me what had happened. She said, "He is going to be down there to Kokusai" -- Kokusai is at Seventh or Sixth and Jackson -- "and then he says he's going to go kill him." And I said... so I got that message real quick. So he was waving his arm around with the gun around so I went back and I said, "Ojisan, kore kariru yo." So I took the pistol and put it in my pocket, and I said, "Ni, san-nichi de motte kimasu." Two, three days by that time they worked it out a little bit better so that Terry could now rent, rent Japanese films from Japan without going through Kitamura-san. So anyway, so in the meantime, in that three, four years afterwards the husband dies of tumor in the head, and the Kitamuras and Terry got along better. But three or four days later on, I went back up there with the gun, and I took out all the bullets in the gun and gave it to him. [Laughs]

DG: So there really were bullets in there?

BU: Huh?

DG: There really were bullets in there?

BU: Yeah. You know what, I can't understand how I had nerve enough to do it, but I did.

<Begin Segment 32>

DG: Well, it was, you were telling me this story in connection with the fact that you made a lot of house calls.

BU: Yeah, yeah.

DG: So you were used to going into people's homes.

BU: Yeah, right. Anywhere. Most of the house calls were in the International District or black district. I never got in trouble with any of them because I made, I made house calls on them, too.

DG: So how many did you say you made a day?

BU: I made average of five to ten every day.

DG: And through all the years you kept doing that.

BU: Yeah. I made that many, many a year I closed my office.

DG: That was a couple years ago?

BU: No, that was, that was seven, eight years ago.

DG: So 1990?

BU: Yeah.

<Begin Segment 33>

DG: So you made house calls and had your practice open from 1957 to 1990.

BU: Yeah. I made just as many house calls in the beginning as when I ended because if you want to, you see, my advantage is I knew most of the Japanese, and I knew that they, they, one, they didn't have money. A lot of them didn't, old people, the Issei people didn't have money so I knew this so I made a lot of house calls and never charged them. Maybe that's why I got so damn many house calls. But you see, I knew that they couldn't afford it so, therefore, they... I saw, back in those days, all the president of the King County Medical Service Bureau or King County, King County Health Plan were people that I knew very well. In fact, Bruce Gilliland, on one of the board meeting said, they were saying, "Hey, don't pay him and then he'll quit making those house calls." Bruce said, "Don't be so stupid. It's saving you money. Every time he makes a house call, he's not going to the hospital or something else. It saves us money so quit (complaining) and pay him." [Laughs] This is why I got, roundabout way I got, I got that message that it was okay for me to make house calls for King County patient.

DG: Good for you.

BU: They didn't pay me that much, but at least I got paid for the ones I saw.

DG: So how many Japanese doctors were there in --

BU: There was Ruby Inouye and Paul Suzuki part of the time. The reason why I made a lot of house calls, too, was the fact that Ruby didn't make 'em.

DG: Well, it would be hard for her as a woman.

BU: Yeah, that's right, because she had three kids that's what the patients said. "She got kids and she can't, she can't leave the house so will you come to see me?" [Laughs]

<Begin Segment 34>

DG: Tell me about your work with the Issei and the abuse in the Issei.

BU: Oh. One, number one, I had a lot of, lot of people I knew that are Issei and they're more likely to say okay to come to see them, but Sue Tomita, who is the head social worker at Harborview Hospital, was making a study on domestic abuse. So she came to me and said, "Ben, you know a lot of Isseis." "Yeah, that's right." "Would you help me do this study?" I says, "Fine. We'll work on it." So within, within an hour after, she told me we were interviewing patients and then by this, this was around November, December, and by May she had her Ph.D. paper written.

DG: 19' what?

BU: This is couple years ago, 1996 or '7.

DG: But give me some examples of some of the abuse that you found.

BU: There was one Nisei that used to call me up usually on a weekend Friday or Saturday at two o'clock in the morning. He'd come back and he was drunk and he want sex or something, and his wife wouldn't do any of it, wouldn't have any part of it. So he'd get mad and beat her up and after he'd beat her up at one or two o'clock in the morning, she'd call me and say, "Come up and see me because I'm hurting." But the thing is that she wanted me to write down details exactly what happened and where the bruises were and so forth. Well, so that, I'd take that back home and file it away in a secret place, and I had a whole bunch of them that call me about that. Some of the Isseis used to call me, too. So we picked out those people that I knew that had experience, and we filed those things away. But she used that in her Ph.D. paper so it worked out.

DG: Well, how much of it do you think there was in the community?

BU: Quite a bit. A lot of Isseis beat up their wives. There are some Niseis and we did two studies, actually, with Sue, Sue Tomita, one that we selected among the Isseis and Niseis, and then we picked out, picked out some that would be surprising.

DG: How much extramarital affairs and things do you think there were in the Issei community?

BU: There were some, but there is more beating up than extramarital.

DG: Was there... in way back, was there a lot of prostitution, do you think?

BU: Not necessarily prostitution. It would be...

DG: This is probably when the men were single, clear back in the teens and things, but I have haven't heard it so much lately.

BU: Lately because of HIV and the rest of it, I think it's turned it down. But there's a lot of, lot of activity. We're talking about twenty or thirty years ago or more.

<Begin Segment 35>

DG: How would you characterize the Japanese community health-wise?

BU: Health-wise, they had a lot of TB. This is way back, we're talking, going back to the 19' early '50s and somewhere around there. You see, I knew about a lot of that because I was, I was on the board of directors at the TB Sanitarium for about twelve years. And the last few years I was, I was anti-TB League representative. You know, they had those Christmas seals? I was in charge of that Christmas seal and also in charge of dispensing the money out.

DG: So were you involved in that, because so many Japanese were?

BU: That's right, because I felt that they deserved, if they ask me, they deserved our help because of the fact that so many Japanese have benefited from it. So I was on that committee, committee and chair of the anti-TB, the anti-TB League's Christmas stamp. I was, in fact, the last three years, I was in charge of that thing before we canceled it out.

DG: So otherwise, besides the TB, what kind of problems do Japanese have?

BU: They had a lot of kids in drugs.

DG: Oh, now?

BU: Now, but not so much now as it was five years ago.

DG: Is that right? But they're all --

BU: They're all -- I never hear the, hear the Nisei talk much about it, but there are plenty of 'em.

<Begin Segment 36>

DG: Well, let's talk then about your aging, work with the aging.

BU: Well, one thing is this, I have been in practice so long they all grow old, and you got to grow old with them. I'm older than a lot of patients at Keiro now, but that's all right. Because, but, you see, my two parents and Ruth's two parents were all aged when they died. They all have an influence on you and because they're older and they needed help, I took care of them. So as they grow older, they...

DG: So from the very beginning of your private practice...

BU: Yeah, private practice I took care of a lot of old people, more so than most doctors. Most doctors, they don't like to take care of old people because they never get well.

DG: But what do you think?

BU: Huh?

DG: It doesn't bother you?

BU: It didn't bother me. One of the reasons why Randy became a pediatrician is because he said, "You know, Dad, if I were to start a practice here all I would get is old people like your people, your patients." So he said he didn't like that so at least in pediatrics you're not going to see old people. Because they get well.

DG: At least to start. [Laughs]

BU: Yeah. You know what, he doesn't know that I became, one hair point is all I needed to me going into pediatrics instead of adult medicine. I was very good at pediatrics. I had almost eight months, eight, nine months of pediatrics training.

DG: So but you chose your field because...?

BU: Because I liked internal medicine so I got into internal medicine, and the other reason for it is because I got, I got sucked in nephrology, kidney disease.

<Begin Segment 37>

DG: Okay. But talking about working with the aging now, you were on several committees and worked with the...

BU: Yeah. I was always in geriatrics more or less, but geriatrics is a special field by itself, and I was at Providence. The other thing, too, is the fact that it's, you tried to figure out what influenced you, at Providence Hospital, I started Providence Hospital Hospice. Most of the hospice patients were older and I started it with, with a nursing friend whose name is Alma Stanford and together we started a hospice in Providence and then that spread so it's now city-wide. All the hospitals, all the hospitals have a hospice and they're all started by me and my friend.

DG: Don't you think it's partially because, like, you go into the homes and you really get to --

BU: Yeah, that makes a difference.

DG: You get to know the people and what they need.

BU: Yeah. And so that you have to gain some degree of satisfaction for doing those. That's true. And a lot of the patients I meet up there at Keiro are people that I've been there in their home. And you got to get some kind of degree of satisfaction, and the payment for satisfaction is different than if you have patient come to your office.

DG: What was the seeds of how Keiro got started?

BU: Well, see, way back some twenty-three years ago, right coincidentally there was a nursing home available for sale in the Mount Baker district. Well, about ten of us spontaneously -- not spontaneously -- but we asked certain people to come. Tomio, and you know Harry, Tomio, and myself and Tosh Okamoto because I'd been needling these guys before. Say, you know what, we got to do something for the Isseis. We owe them because at the time, a number of my patients had committed suicide in nursing home. How did they do it? They quit eating and drinking and they died, except Mr. Eddie Shimomura -- who died last week -- his father had to go to a nursing home because he and his wife both worked, and they had to put him in a nursing home because he needed care. He went to this nursing home near here called... anyway, and every day he'd put a, put a bag over his head and take a rope and tie it around in a noose. Well, as long as they knew he was going to do it, they caught him, but on Saturday when they had big change in personnel, he went, put it in, but they didn't get him fast enough, so, therefore, he died. All these things have an influence in your life. Ojisan was a nice guy and so, therefore, you feel that you had to do something for them.

DG: Well, one of the reasons that you felt that he wanted to die was why?

BU: Because at the hakujin nursing home, which was the only one available, they didn't do anything for him. First, he couldn't get Japanese food. Two, the activity was all on the hakujin scale so he never enjoyed any of it. And so that if we have our own place, we'd have gohan, we have some Japanese food, but also our activity would be lean toward Issei. They'd sing Japanese song. You know what, we have Japanese song. We have the intergenerational kids, two, three-year-old kids. We teach them Japanese song and then they go upstairs, and they'll sing Japanese song with the oldsters in Japanese. That helps to keep them stable and happy. So we thought this out twenty-three years ago about getting intergenerational child care center, all the singing. We had, you know, they have what they call Echo Club, Echo Choir. Well, these are women who work for Japanese company who get together, and they come and sing. Sing, they promised the other day, they promised they will come every three months. They'll come and sing choir, chorus. So these are the things that help me in terms of give me satisfaction that I find a part in doing this.

DG: Well, you seem to have a particularly strong feeling of returning on.

BU: Yeah, it's called giri, or on. Well, I really do. I think it starts back from the baseball days. You see, at the time it impressed you a lot that these people, who had nothing to gain, put out these things for us so we could have a, have a good time. So it's a continual thing. And the other thing, too, is very important part of my life, too, is the fact that I have been a teacher at the University of Washington Medical School for the last forty, fifty years.

DG: In nephrology?

BU: Huh? No, in everything. And I'm an Associate Professor of Medicine at the University of the Washington Medical School. The only reason they give me a rank is because each time they go up the ladder, they tell you, "Hey, thanks, but do a lot more. Come back." That's what it amounts to. So actually speaking, academically it's very little, but you have a lot of fun doing it.

DG: So what is it that you particularly like sharing with the...

BU: Teaching. Teaching things that you know.

DG: I know. About what?

BU: I get medical students and I take 'em on house calls. So you see, you learn something that you'll never learn by sitting back at your desk at the office. So they like that and they appreciate it and they tell me so that's your pay.

<Begin Segment 38>

DG: Let's finish up with your being one of the ten people that help put together Keiro, and tell me a little bit about some of the early days of gathering the money.

BU: Among the ten young men that got together to decide they were going to buy the nursing home, we signed that mortgage, the first mortgage, to that old nursing home. Ten of us signed it. In other words, once we signed it, we were responsible of payment. If we couldn't get it from the community, we are going to have to put it out. That's all right. We all recognize that, so we'll do that. But you see, each one of us had our own reasons for doing so, but the same ten people are still involved in Nikkei Concerns. We help put that Nikkei Manor, the assisted care living place, and then whatever else we're going to do, we'll be all together. We may not agree with everything, but we at least put our pocketbooks where the need is.

DG: And you mentioned that had some of the contributions that is you got from the community were --

BU: Yeah, yeah. Mr. Kubota, he was my surrogate father and I needled him for three years, and then he finally gave us enough money to build a management, or I should say that area in Keiro where... that entire area was put up, put up by Mr. Kubota. But it took me three years to get it because he and I used to have, have little snack together every morning. I would go down -- this is when they had Sagamiya, which is a confectionery at Fifth or Sixth and King Street -- I'd go down there around 10:30 after I finished my rounds, and I go there and have manju, manju and tea. And Ojisan would see me, my car get, so he'd pop out and then he'd come in and we'd have coffee or tea, mostly tea and mochigashi. And the lady that was in there was Mrs. Shibata and Mr. Asaba, but when he see me come, they come out with already a plate with manju, manju and tea. So we always sit and talk. And it took me three years to convince him that Keiro Nursing Home was a good thing to donate to that it will be useful, that it would be helpful. And...

DG: What about your church affiliation?

BU: Huh?

DG: What about your church affiliation?

BU: Church? I'm not very close to the church, but I always help out with the church whenever they having money raising problems. And then my mother liked Reverend Tsai a lot. Reverend Tsai was a minister at Congregational Church, and they liked, they liked, she liked him, and each time they'd have a bazaar, she would make one thousand mochigashi.

DG: Your mother lived how long, then?

BU: Huh? She lived almost, she died ten years ago.

DG: How old was she when she...

BU: She was... I think she was eighty something.

DG: But you said that when Keiro started their fundraising that Congregational Church donated, donated some...

BU: Yeah, they donated ten thousand dollars. The reason for that is they had to take it out of their building fund. This month they just finished, finished building their new addition. That took a lot of sacrifice.

DG: So a lot of community organizations or whatnot participated in...

BU: They all participated. All the churches participated to the extent of ten thousand dollars or so. Yeah, we're talking about the Presbyterian church, Methodist church, the Baptist church. They all donated so we appreciate that. That's why they're automatic member of the board of directors.

<Begin Segment 39>

DG: Okay. So anyway, your grandchildren, how many grandchildren do you have?

BU: I got (six). (...)

DG: [Six] grandchildren.

BU: Three at Takis'.

DG: And then how many children?

BU: Two at my other daughter's and one at the pediatrician.

DG: Okay. Your children are who?

BU: Huh?

DG: Your children are who? We didn't talk about your children.

BU: Three who I live with --

DG: Your oldest one is a son.

BU: Yeah.

DG: And then he was born what? 1949.

BU: No, it's a daughter. She's thirteen or fourteen now.

DG: No, no, no. We're talking about your children. You were married in '49.

BU: No, my children, I had four.

DG: Okay. So, you were married in '49, and then you had a...

BU: And then I had '51.

DG: '51 was a...

BU: '51 was a boy and the other one, next one, is also boy.

DG: And then two girls.

BU: The second one, the oldest, is a doctor, pediatrician.

DG: And then you have two girls.

BU: Yeah, I have two girls. Both are nurses, both are cardiac nurses.

DG: Is that right?

BU: Yeah.

DG: Well, Ruth was, your wife, was also a...

BU: Yeah, for the first year she helped at the office, but other than that she has not worked because we didn't want the kids to be without supervision. They become good taxicab drivers and chauffeurs to different things. So Ruth only worked the first year.

<Begin Segment 40>

DG: So what is it that you want your children to know about being Japanese?

BU: That you do your best. You see, I grew up in a time where unless you did, you were superior, you never got anywhere. And the same thing with the kids that's growing up now. Just because you think that you earned, earned your keep, no longer it isn't true. Unless you're superior, you don't get to where you want to go.

DG: So how, how can you teach your grandchildren this?

BU: Well, they're going to feel and think like hakujins, but they're not. If you don't, if you aren't superior, you'll never get there.

DG: No matter who, whether you're hakujin or...

BU: Yeah, it doesn't make any difference whether you're hakujin or Nihonjin or what have you. You've got to be superior.

DG: In something. Not...

BU: Yeah.

DG: Yeah. So how do you --

BU: You look around and see what the Sanseis have done, they've all done well, but unless you're superior, you'll never get there.

<Begin Segment 41>

DG: So is there anything in your life that you would do differently?

BU: No, I'd still be a doctor, but I may do things differently as a doctor. But I don't have any, any misgivings of what I've done. That's a long time to try and be a doctor, nineteen years.

DG: That's right. Is there anything that you'd like to add as far as...

BU: No.

DG: You're going to get a copy of this tape and so your kids will be able to see. So you can...

BU: But I've had my fun. Fun is a funny thing, it doesn't have to be great athlete or various other, just as long as you do things that you want to do and do things that are useful. So I've done that so that's, to me, that's all that's necessary.

DG: Great. Well, we're here. Today is June 1, 1998. And you were born in 1918 and so that makes you how old?

BU: Well, I'm an old owl. I'm going to be eighty this year, but I haven't missed any of it.

DG: And times have changed. You've seen a lot of change.

BU: Yeah. The only thing I'm going to miss is the fact that Mariners baseball team is not going to go to the World Series.

DG: Well, maybe they'll make it. [Laughs]

BU: Well, anyway.

DG: Thank you very much.

BU: So it is.