Densho Digital Repository - Judy Furuichi Interview

Densho Digital Repository
Alameda Japanese American History Project Collection
Title: Judy Furuichi Interview
Narrator: Judy Furuichi
Interviewer: Virginia Yamada
Location: Emeryville, California
Date: April 7, 2022
Densho ID: ddr-ajah-1-8

<Begin Segment 1>

VY: Okay. Today is Thursday, April 7, 2022, and we're here in Emeryville, California, with Judy Furuichi. And on camera is Dana Hoshide, and my name is Virginia Yamada. So, Judy, thank you for joining us today.

JF: Oh, you're welcome, my pleasure.

VY: Good to have you. Let's begin by having you tell us when and where you were born and what name you were given at birth.

JF: I was born in Topaz, Utah, on December 27, 1942, and my given name was Judy Ann Takeda.

VY: And what does it say on your birth certificate?

JF: Judy Ann Nobuko Takeda, that would be my given Japanese name.

VY: Okay, okay. And does it say you were born in Topaz?

JF: It does, it does say that.

VY: And were you, where in the birth order were you?

JF: I'm the eldest of six children.

VY: The eldest of six children. And how about your siblings? Do you want to list their names and their birth order?

JF: Sure. We came in two, twos and twos, pairs of twos. My sister below me is Jo, or Joanne, she was born in 1944, and then Kent, my brother Kent was born in 1945, my brother David was born in 1946, so the three of us were born in Topaz and then my mother was pregnant, actually, with my brother David when we were asked to leave. And then Susan, number five, was born in 1946. What did I say?

VY: Let's see, we have David, 1946.

JF: Oh, I'm sorry. So Susan in 1948, and Carol in 1949.

VY: That's a lot of dates to remember. [Laughs]

JF: It is. And then you're going to say, "How can six children be born in seven years?"

VY: It's a good question. It sounds like a lot for your mom.

JF: It was a lot for my mother, but she was a trouper.

VY: She must have been, and to have three children in camp.

JF: Right, right.

<Begin Segment 2>

VY: So you know, we're going to come back to Topaz a little bit later, but first I think it would be interesting to talk about your family history and what you know about your family and the early days of the Alameda community. So, can you tell me what your parents' names were and when and where they were born?

JF: My mother is Nellie Fumiko... well, her given name was Fumiko. I guess her English name, she was given an English name, Nellie Itahara, and she was born in Alameda on January 10, 1914. And my dad was Shuzo, S-H-U-Z-O Takeda. He was born in Japan in 1910.

VY: And when did your dad come to America?

JF: He came in, I want to say 1924. Yes, 1924, that's correct.

VY: So he was twelve... or fourteen?

JF: Fourteen.

VY: He was fourteen, okay. And so that's interesting, so your father was Issei and your mom was Nisei.

JF: Yes.

VY: So how do you identify yourself?

JF: I know I'm a Sansei, but... and I guess I would say I'm mostly Sansei, but I do have... I kind of sometimes think like a Nisei, a younger Nisei. Maybe because I was born with my dad being from Japan and growing up with so many Niseis. We came from a very small family, in other words, my mother was the only child born here in the United States. And then when my dad came, he came from a large family, however, he always identified as almost an only child as well. So growing up, we had a lot of extended family, and they were all Niseis, of course. So I began, I came to know them and their traditions and the way they think. So I guess being an only, or the eldest in the family, I took on a lot of the Nisei qualities, ways of thinking, traditions.

VY: What are some of those qualities? Because I've heard that before from people, and I'm just wondering how you perceive the differences between being a little more Nisei or a little more Sansei?

JF: Well, I think it's how I perceive being as part of a community. For me, community is just everything. Growing up, I watched my parents become very involved in the community in Alameda. They had lots of friends, and just following their traditions. One thing that comes to my mind which I continue to follow is, you know, when someone passes, we do certain things. We used to immediately go and visit or pay our respects to the family, that kind of thing. And then follow through with koden and just being there for the family. As a Sansei, there are, we as a Sansei, I still follow those traditions. However, there are some that don't. And I always wondered, why do I feel compelled? It's almost the first thing I think of. "Oh, I need to make a phone call," or, "I need to go," and all those traditional things that my parents did. So I guess I'm following their, a lot of their traditions and their way of thinking.

VY: Yeah, that makes sense.

<Begin Segment 3>

VY: Okay, so we're talking about your parents, so your dad came over quite young as a kid. Where did he go when he first came?

JF: He came to Alameda. In fact, he was brought from Hiroshima with a family friend. We all, my parents both, they all lived in the same, kind of like a village in Hiroshima, in the country. And so they all knew each other, and there was this one woman, her name was Mrs. Teshima, brought my dad over when he was fourteen. Landed in Alameda, he had an older brother in Los Angeles, and after he came to Alameda, he went to meet him, and lived with him for many, many years until he was, until he came back to Alameda when he married my mother.

VY: Well, what did your dad do in the Los Angeles area, did he work?

JF: Yeah. He went to school, I don't know how far he got into the public schools, but he did. He worked with his brother in a produce company. That's what his brother, we called him Uncle Kay, we did meet him at one point. So he lived there with his brother for probably thirteen or fifteen years?

VY: Okay. And then before your dad came to Alameda, let's talk about your mom and her early days in Alameda, but what kinds of things did she do, what was her upbringing like?

JF: Okay. Well, my grandparents arrived in Alameda in 1902. And she was their only child, so she was very, very, raised very overly protective, I think. Because in those days, my grandmother was the one who went out to work and my grandfather stayed home and took care of my mother. So growing up, I recall her saying that it was her father that took her to school that was there when they came home for lunch. When she would come home with her friend for lunch, he had something prepared. He was very protective of her, but she being... she was very outgoing and a people person. So she made friends and had friends within that little community. And just, Virginia, that community was, many of them came from Hiroshima, so they knew each other, they were friends from Japan, which, to me, is amazing. And how would they settle in Alameda? But they did have that friendship from Japan which carried over here and they developed a really close community. So my mother, being an only child, had friends, lots of young people to be with.

VY: Yeah that is interesting about the community, and so many people came from Hiroshima. Were there other areas of Japan that were kind of represented in the Alameda community?

JF: No. I think, gosh, I'm not quite sure. But looking back at the history, I'm involved in another project developing some historic markers for the city. And came across some photos of the Hiroshima-ken association and there were many, many people that I could identify through the, in those photos that were always family friends. And to this day we have connections with the same families.

VY: Yeah, that's so interesting because as a kid, you just, you're around these people and you don't really necessarily know where they're from or that sort of thing. And then later on in life, you kind of look back at these things and you're finding these photographs, information, and you're learning more about the actual longtime connections everybody had even before they came.

JF: Absolutely, yeah. I really treasure that, knowing that. Because, well, we can talk about this later, but growing up with just no aunts or uncles, no direct aunts and uncles, we had lots of people from that original Hiroshima community, their children became my aunts and uncles. And so that relationship still continues, those relationships still continue.

VY: I can tell, it's a very strong community.

JF: Uh-huh, it is.

<Begin Segment 4>

VY: Backing up a little bit, you talked about your grandparents, your grandfather mostly took care of your mom, he didn't work.

JF: Yes.

VY: But your grandma, your grandmother did work, what kind of work did she do?

JF: She did what they used to call day work. She would go and cook for families, maybe just one or two families, do their housekeeping, that kind of thing.

VY: And do you know why your grandfather didn't work? This is kind of interesting.

JF: Well, according to my mother, physically he wasn't really, he had some weakness, some illness, not very strong. And I don't know, she even used to say maybe he didn't want to work, he'd rather stay home. So that's a good question, I wish I knew more about that.

VY: And then your grandparents, when they came to America, they were already married?

JF: Yes, they were. My grandfather was thirty-three and my grandmother was twenty-four, and they did have a son, they left a son in Japan. Well, they came again for all the reasons that most immigrants come to the United States or America, to find a better life for themselves.

VY: Do you know what happened to the son, did the family say in touch with the son?

JF: They did go back, I believe, in 1928, was it, when my mother was fourteen, and she met him, and that was the only time that they had met. I don't know what happened to him, it's a good question.

<Begin Segment 5>

VY: Okay, so your parents are growing up and your father's in Southern California, your mom is in Alameda, then what happens, how did they meet?

JF: Well, actually, the story goes that when my mother was fourteen, when she did make that trip back to Japan in 1928, she met my dad in that same, in Hiroshima village. So they knew each other, which, I know, to me... and then they come back, my mother and my grandparents come back. And I think... well, it was not an arranged marriage, but just reading her biography, my mother, do you know what baishakunin is? So there was a couple here in Alameda that knew my dad's family and that knew a couple in Los Angeles. So they brought the two together and I guess the kind of, like, helped arranged the marriage, and that's it, that's how they... yeah.

VY: That's interesting, okay. And then do you know very much else about your grandparents on your father's side?

JF: Nothing.

VY: Okay.

JF: Nothing. We just have a photo of him when the day that, or very soon before he left, he took a photo with his mother, and that's the only photo we have of my father's family. My dad wasn't a very talkative man, so he didn't share a lot.

VY: Okay, and then let's see... so your parents meet and they get married. And what's their early life like, like between the time they get married in, say, the early 1940s, their prewar life, what do you know about that? Working, activities, that sort of thing?

JF: Gosh, I don't know. Good question, I don't know when my dad, they were married in 1941. Was it '41? Yes. And they were married in Alameda. My mother, by that time was very active at the Methodist church in Alameda. And so... you know, Virginia, that's a very good question. I don't know what they were doing prior to that. I know my mother did work after she graduated from high school. She worked for the Nichi Bei newspaper very early on. She told stories about having to go to San Francisco, and she, in those days, they did typesetting to publish their newspaper, and her job was to rake, as she would say, rake all the letters away, back, and then put them back in order so that they can be used again to typeset for the newspaper. So she did that for several years, went to San Francisco. But I know that in her younger days, she became very active in the Christian conference community that Japanese Americans formed amongst the different churches and became very active. So, yeah.

<Begin Segment 6>

VY: You know, maybe this is a good time to talk a little bit about the history of the churches in Alameda. Because currently there's, like, two main ones, from what I understand.

JF: Yes.

VY: So how did the church that you belonged to begin? Like a little bit of the early history.

JF: Oh...

VY: Just a little bit, like what you know, it's okay not to be too detailed.

JF: No, no, that's okay. We just... oh gosh, in 2018, we celebrated our 120th anniversary. So in 1890, is that right? 1898 the church was established, and it was established by two Caucasian missionary women who came to Alameda and discovered that the Japanese community needed something. And they said, okay, well, they really need to learn how to speak English. So they formed... they got together, they bought a little house or rented a house, and that was the beginning of the Methodist church in Alameda. And then the Buddhist temple, I'm not quite sure when that was established, but it was about the same time. And those two churches are just kind of like the hub of the community, it always has been the hub.

VY: And back when the church first started, who were the main people that made up the Japanese community? Was it mostly men, were there some women?

JF: Oh, I would say it had to be the men, it was mostly the men. We've heard stories about how some of the men would go out on the street corners, all dressed up, and start evangelizing, I guess. But then later on, the women became very important, because they were the ones that sort of provided the fellowship time and they provided the meals and things that brought the community together. So we used to call them the Fujinkai ladies who would be very, very instrumental in keeping the church social and active and all of that.

VY: Yeah, so it sounds like first the men came over to work, I suppose. Then at some point they, some women came to join them?

JF: Yes, yes. And my parents, my mother came to the Buena Vista church when she was, in 1918, when she was only four years old. So she's been there, she was there for many, many years. She was just a very central part for all those years, of that community.

VY: Yeah. Were your grandparents also part of the Buena Vista church?

JF: My grandfather came, I believe, I guess in Japan he practiced Shinto, the Shinto religion. Because I do remember in, growing up, I remember him always going to the kitchen pantry every morning, and he would open the cupboard and just look at his little altar that he had set up. He didn't become a Christian, but he did bring my mother, again, when she was four years old, because he felt it was important for her to have that community of young people.

<Begin Segment 7>

VY: Okay. All right, so now I think we're getting close to the war, aren't we? So what happened? So when Japan bombs Pearl Harbor, and your parents have been married for maybe a year?

JF: Uh-huh.

VY: And so what happens to them? What do they have to do?

JF: Well, my grandparents, it seems, because they were aliens, they had to leave Alameda before my parents did. So they went to Oakland to stay with friends, Alameda being... Alameda had to leave almost immediately because of the naval base that was there in Alameda, and strategically they just didn't, they just needed Japanese Americans or Japanese to leave. But my parents did go, they left Alameda. They sold their things just as every other family, they had to leave things. They left their belongings at the church, and they were looked over a pastor that was assigned there, a Caucasian pastor during the war. So they left Alameda and went to stay with friends in Oakland, and then from there they went to Tanforan in San Bruno, which was the assembly center prior to going to, they didn't know where, but eventually to Topaz.

VY: Eventually to Topaz. And then, okay, so now we're at Topaz, and your parents arrive with your mom's parents.

JF: Yes.

VY: And your mom is pregnant?

JF: Yes.

VY: So I know that you probably don't have any memories of that time in Topaz, but can you tell me what you know of that time, if you've heard other family members talk about it or any research you've done?

JF: Uh-huh. You know, it's the same story, how harsh the weather was, just the environment was so different, well, of course, from Alameda. They didn't know what to expect, so they weren't prepared. Clothing, they could only... you hear this all the time, you could only take what you could carry. And it was just my grandparents and my parents, and my mother became a block manager, we were in Block 13. And again, I think it's because of her love of people and just her way of being social. So she took that job, earned a little bit of money. My dad, he knew that my grandparents did not like the food being served to them, so he would leave. He left camp and went to Delta, which is a nearby town near Topaz. And he found a job working in the sugar beet fields, so he would stay there weeks on end and come home, but always bringing food that he knew that my grandparents would enjoy. So yeah, he worked hard, too, just to kind of, I guess he was just being a really good son-in-law. [Laughs] It must have been very difficult for Issei folks, you know, the harshness of it and all of that. And again, in Block 13, there were some friends from Alameda, so that, I'm sure that provided some comfort to them, knowing that they were really not alone or amongst strangers.

We had an opportunity several years ago to go to Topaz. You know, being born there, of course, I had no memory, just what my parents would say, and they didn't talk a lot about it. But when we went, and this was... one of my grandsons organized a pilgrimage to Topaz. And so when we went, we had the pleasure, the wonderful experience, of meeting Jane Beckwith, who is... she's just a fabulous, wonderful woman, who has built up the Topaz Museum. And the pilgrimage, there was a lot of communication, so she knew about our family and what we were really interested in doing. So she took the time to take us to where we lived, to Block 13. And, Virginia, you know, something just, something familiar. I don't know what it was, but I just felt... I know where I am. I know I was here. And she pointed out so many things that were personal to our family, showed us exactly where our front door to the barrack might have been, the rock garden that my grandfather, my dad created. You know, she warned us, everybody gets warned, we're not allowed to pick up anything and take it home, right? And I was so temped to stoop down and pick a rock up, that I felt maybe my dad touched, or my grandfather laid down, in a beautiful pattern, it's still there, it's still there untouched. But I thought better of it, I said, no, I don't want to do this. Jane said no, we can't do this, so I didn't. But the feeling that I had, the feeling that I had was... I knew this was a home for me. This was where I lived. It was a very special time. We were able to go with our grandchildren and other friends, too, so it was nice. It was nice.

I do have one claim to fame, and that is there was a new hospital built in Topaz, and a friend of ours, I just found out that he was the last one born in the old hospital at the end of December, almost Christmas, he was a Christmas baby. And I was born two days after Christmas in the new hospital, the first baby born there, claim to fame. [Laughs]

VY: That's great, you christened the hospital. Well, that sounds like it must have been an incredibly moving experience to go there. Because I was curious, because I know you were quite young when you left camp, two or three?

JF: Yes, exactly, three.

VY: Still, those experiences are there inside of you, right? Before you're able to really put words to it, it's part of you, so it's just so interesting to hear you talk about that sort of visceral response you had to being there.

JF: Yeah, it was a special time.

VY: Thank you for talking about that.

<Begin Segment 8>

VY: Let's see. A couple questions about when your family was in Topaz. Did you all live in the same space?

JF: Yes, we did. We had a double because there were four, well, four of them and then the new baby on the way. Yes, we had a double apartment, I guess, I don't know how you would explain that.

VY: And then did your mom ever talk later about what it was like to have babies in camp? She had three babies in camp.

JF: She did. Well, thirteen months apart, we were all, the three of us were thirteen months apart. So constantly in diapers. But living with her parents, it brought her some security that, extra hands. But I do remember her saying, or writing about, my grandmother would wash our diapers. And my mother was so particular, she would ask my grandmother, "Did you rinse them two or three times? Because you know you have to rinse them two or three times to get them really clean." So I think she was very happy to have her parents there to help her and support her. Because Dad wasn't there. He was out again, he was out working. You know, the first child, she would tell us a story that one of her good friends who was from Alameda, who joined the army, came to see the new baby and brought gifts from wherever he was stationed. And so, I guess those kinds of celebrations continued, people were still, they did the best they could to maintain a normal life. And so, yeah, they took pictures, they had a professional photographer to take photos of babies and children, because we have photos of us, Jo and I, taken individually, sitting on a bench. It was like a photograph that could be taken today of a young child.

VY: You mean this was a photographer in the camp?

JF: Yes, it had to be. Because I've seen other children who've had the same pose, so to speak.

VY: Interesting. Do you know anything about that photographer?

JF: No, I don't.

VY: Interesting. Well, before we leave camp, is there anything else you want to talk about Topaz before we move on to coming back to Alameda?

JF: Just that the friends that my parents made there, I mean, they were, they did the normal Topaz work. We have a photo of my dad with a group of men who were obviously digging a ditch of some kind. And we knew, I could identify folks from friends of our family. And as it turns out, my future husband's father is also in that photo, unbeknownst to those two, that we would eventually be joined as a family through marriage. But Topaz must have been a very small community where people got to know each other to rely on each other. And those same relationships, many of them, when we came back to Alameda, they continued.

VY: Yeah, and I think it's so interesting how the power of these photographs and these materials that you're sort of revisiting now while you're working on this other project, are bringing back these, not even memories, but understandings, of connections.

JF: Absolutely.

VY: Just seeing these photographs of people that you know, but you didn't know they knew each other, necessarily.

JF: Yes, right. I was going through a Topaz reunion booklet that my mother had, and it happened to show folks from Block 13. And there was my mother and several others that we knew previously, before coming to camp. But then there were others that I spotted, were able to spot. That because of camp, our families developed relationships. And some of those relationships still continued, it's amazing.

<Begin Segment 9>

VY: Okay, so let's talk about after Topaz. So your parents returned to Topaz, and before they went to camp, did they own any property?

JF: No, they did not. They did not. They did store whatever they could, again, at Buena Vista, at the church.

VY: To Alameda?

JF: Yes.

VY: And what was life like for them? At this point they had three kids, and your mother was pregnant.

JF: Pregnant with a fourth, yes. And so they came back to Alameda, we came back to Alameda, and we spent... we were offered, because we had no place to go, we were offered, the church turned into a hostel, more or less, as most churches did. And prior to the war, my mother, of course, was very, very active in the church. So she, they invited our family to live in the church, which we did. And we took, we lived in a brown, very big brown shingle building, which served as, it was a two-story building, which served as the sanctuary of the church. And then the lower floors were Sunday School rooms, or meeting rooms, so our family lived there. But there was no plumbing. Electricity, yes. And heating, I think, was kerosene lamps or kerosene heaters. But you know, they had no choice, they had no choice. And there were maybe four or five, six other families that returned to the church as well and were offered housing. So, yeah. And again, my mother was pregnant with David when we returned to Alameda. So it had to be very difficult raising, just having toddlers. But again, it was that community that was so supportive, and it was just one big family. We were a big extended family to each other, supporting each other, raising the children together, cooking together, because there was no kitchen where we were living, so we shared a kitchen in the big Queen Anne building that was in the front of the church property. And yeah, so there again, it was another time when we developed real close relations with friends.

VY: And did your parents work during this time?

JF: My dad did, my mother couldn't. So he found a job at a produce company in Oakland, that was his background. We knew folks who owned a produce company, so he got a job there. But again, here comes this big family, and he's got to support them, us. So he would take on other jobs. Gardening was a big thing for many of the Nisei men that returned. And I remember hearing a story about how several of them, including my dad, got together, bought a wagon and tools together, and formed kind of a little gardening crew that went to different homes to do their gardens, maintain their gardens. So he also... my mother's belongings, their belongings, their family belongings again were stored at the church. And the Caucasian minister who was assigned to look over the property during our absence, was Reverend Cobb, John Cobb, and he and my parents became just really good friends. So he watched the properties and watched all the belongings, and he was also associated with the Twin Towers Methodist Church here in Alameda, which was a Caucasian Methodist church. And so when Dad needed more work, they offered, that church offered him a job as custodian, so he took that on as well. So I would say, growing up, Daddy had to work, very difficult, and most often it was three jobs during the week that he would have to attend to. And I do remember growing up every Saturday as a custodian of the church, he would go and clean it and prepare it for the following Sunday. And we would tag along, I guess we were asked and invited to go and dust the pews, it was a big church. Dust the pews and help vacuum. So we learned early on that we had certain responsibilities as well within our family to help poor Daddy.

VY: Did you like doing that, going out with your dad and cleaning the pews, dusting the pews?

JF: I didn't mind, it was just something that... I guess certain things are expected. Certain things are understood that we had to do, we had to do. And we did that for many years.

VY: I'm curious how your dad, he had all these different jobs, how did he get around? Like how did he get to Oakland?

JF: Oh, he had a car. He was able to buy a car, so he did that. My mother, of course, didn't drive. She didn't drive, learn to drive until she was much older. When we were growing up it was Daddy who took us everywhere.

<Begin Segment 10>

VY: And what kind of memories do you have of growing up in the church? Like who took care of you, who made the meals, bathing, activities, that sort of thing?

JF: There were several families with children, so we... and again, there was one kitchen on the property. So we took turns or did communal cooking. The bathing story, I'll call it a story, is well-known in our church history, in our family history. Because eventually there were five children, two others that were born while we lived at the church, so five all together. And, of course, again, no running water in that building where we lived, so Dad would, he had this large, round galvanized tub. And he would have to bring hot water and fill that tub up, and that's how we bathed. So the story is that we lined up in order of our birth, of our age, and, of course, the face is the first to get washed, so mine got washed, then Jo's, then Kent's, then David's, and working down. And so I don't know how David felt as being one of the last, was the water kind of murky, I don't know. But anyway, that's just a story that we all laugh about and we love to tell. Because, as it also turns out, years later, that galvanized tub showed up at our church picnics to hold our cold drinks. [Laughs] I don't know, I can't say for sure that it was the same tub, but that is the story.

VY: This dirty old tub.

JF: Yeah, this dirty, dirty old tub.

VY: Let's see. Do you have any other early childhood memories before you moved out of the church?

JF: I do. I guess being the oldest, I was just very aware of the siblings, the younger siblings and my mom and dad's presence, in and out. So I do remember that when David was getting, was being ready to be born, I had to be young, three or four years old, right? Or maybe it was Susan when she was born. I remember thinking, "What's going to happen to us if Mom doesn't come back after giving birth?" Now, don't ask me where this idea came from, had I heard about mothers losing or not making it through childbirth, I don't know, but I do remember saying, "That's okay," because we have Koike no Neesan. Now, Koike no Neesan was not married at the time, but she was a wonderful friend to our family. And she and my dad always had a very special relationship. They loved to laugh together and they just enjoyed each other. So I knew that if something happened to Mom, she would be stepping right in there. And I had no worries, I mean, that thought came, but I thought, "No, we're going to be okay, because Koike no Neesan is going to be here for us." That didn't happen, of course, Mom was fine, she's a strong woman. But she, again, it's the community feeling that we look out for each other. I even knew that growing up, that we'd be okay.

VY: That's interesting, too, what's coming through, is that sort of older sibling responsibility, the feeling of responsibility even at that very young age, of thinking about, "Well, what if this happens?" and then kind of working through, okay, then we'll be okay because this other thing will happen?

JF: Yes.

<Begin Segment 11>

JF: We lived there at the church for, until 1952, I believe, when my parents were now able to move and find another place.

VY: Yeah, so what happened there? Did they purchase a home?

JF: They did. They purchased a home three doors down. I don't think my mother would have it any other way, she had to be close to the church. They purchased a home three doors down from the church, and growing up, my mother had a Caucasian friend, her name was Winnie Hackett, and she happened to live in that home three doors down from the church. They went through grammar school together, and probably high school. Grammar school in those days went from K through 8, so it was a long time to make friends and relationships. So when it got time for the Hackett family to move, Mrs. Hackett, Winnie's mother, told her that she would like to offer to sell the home to my mom and dad, because she knew them for many years. So Mom and Dad made some kind of arrangement, they probably had to borrow money to come up with a down payment. But through the generosity of Mrs. Hackett, they were able to buy the home that still is our Takeda home in Alameda. We still have that house, we all grew up there.

VY: Were they able to purchase the house in their own name?

JF: By that time in 1952, I believe they did, they did. I had heard that Mrs. Hackett was willing to buy it or to sell it to my parents under the, not under the table, but, you know, there was certain redlining in Alameda at that time. But it was legal.

VY: And you still have the home.

JF: We still have the home.

VY: Okay, so you all moved into this new home? And what was life like in your new home, like how big was it, how many bedrooms?

JF: Oh, gosh. And by that time, there were five children, and my grandparents and my parents, so that's nine. And then my youngest sister Carol was born. So the house had three bedrooms. It's a large house, it's a two-story home, it has a basement and then the second floor. But three bedrooms, only three bedrooms, a large kitchen, one full bath and a half bath. So can you imagine? Most people can't imagine, ten of us. My grandparents had the first, the French bedroom, they got the bedroom to themselves. In the middle bedroom, we, my sister Jo and I, and my brothers Kent and David, shared that room, and there were two double beds in that room with a very narrow space in between for us to walk. In the third bedroom, that was for my mom and dad sharing again with Susan and Carol, the two youngest. So two double beds and two bedrooms with my grandparents in the front. So it had to be difficult, but we thought nothing of it. I mean, that's what we knew, right? I guess living together in close quarters, even at the church, we just didn't know any different.

VY: And it was a little bigger than what you had been before?

<Begin Segment 12>

JF: Oh, absolutely, absolutely.

VY: Okay, so what was like an average day for you like, growing up in your house? What kinds of activities happened in your house?

JF: Oh, you know, quite frankly, I have very few memories of when I was young, from even three years old. It had to be fun, it had to be noisy. Being three doors away from the church, too, we became known as the annex to the church. And knowing my mother, and knowing my grandparents, they formed, again, their Issei relationships, their friends. So many of those Issei folks after church would come to, on Sundays to our house. Not so much the Niseis, because they had their own families to deal with, to watch. But our Sansei friends met at our home as well, so it was just kind of an open house attitude, which was wonderful. And that's how it always was as long as I can remember, just an open home for all of us to bring our friends, for my grandparents to have their friends, and Mom and Dad, too, they had their friends as well.

VY: Yeah, what kinds of things was your mom doing during that time?

JF: Well, with six children, she couldn't work, so Dad again was the only one to work. Later on, she did go out and work, but it was just, again, working for acquaintances that she would go and help in their home or help elders in their homes, that kind of thing. But I know my grandmother, before the war, worked, and after the war, I don't know whether she did any more home care or housekeeping for people.

VY: So when you all were kids, who was the main caretaker of the kids? Was it your grandmother, your...

JF: It was my mother. My grandmother was always there. I know she did a lot of cooking, and she was there to help. Traditionally again, she was there to help her daughter raise these children. And it had to be difficult. Growing up, we... he didn't enjoy getting new clothes, we didn't enjoy getting new toys or bikes. We always were given what they used to call hand-me-downs from friends. The hand-me-downs were wonderful, and again, we didn't know any different. We just didn't have those expectations. Well, we did, but that didn't get us down, that didn't worry us. We lived through it.

VY: What was school like? What were your classmates like and your teachers?

JF: Oh, gosh. I loved going to school. I went to Porter school, happened to be the same grammar school, elementary school that my mother went to. And typically with Alameda in those days, there were very few, in my classes, very few Asian children. But I guess I was the dutiful... didn't make waves, no trouble. So I was welcomed, treated wonderfully by my teachers, and it was a nice time, it was a wonderful time. I remember our Halloween parades that we used to have. I distinctly remember one of the costumes that I wore, it was a red Chinese costume, silk Chinese costume. And I don't know where that came from, but I distinctly remember that, walking around the schoolyard in a parade.

VY: That's interesting. Did you like wearing that costume, was it something that was appealing to you?

JF: I didn't mind it, I didn't mind it. And I didn't it was, at the time, I probably didn't know it was a Chinese costume, so I wouldn't be bothered by that at all.

VY: Yeah, that's interesting. I know you don't remember, you just didn't know where that costume came from, but did someone suggest you wear it, or did you just like the color?

JF: I don't know, maybe it was given to... again, it was in the stack of clothes that came from another family.

VY: And what about the other kids? Was it mostly, like, Asian and white, or were there other ethnic groups?

JF: No, it was not very diverse, not very diverse. It was mostly white. I remember I had a close-by neighbor, Bill Clinton, he was Black. But it was mostly Caucasian.

<Begin Segment 13>

VY: And do you remember when you first started becoming aware? Well, maybe you always were aware of being Japanese American, I'm not sure, because you grew up in this very close, almost small town kind of community. I'm wondering if there was a point in time that you remember where you kind of went out in the world a little bit and you realized, or something happened, or just, there was some kind of realization that maybe other people perceived you as different?

JF: I would say that happened in high school. Up through eighth grade, not at all, but in high school, because it could have happened everywhere, but again, very few Asians. In my class, there were probably only four. So I felt, I really felt it when it came time to, during the school year there were clubs that they formed. And actually, they were called sororities, even in high school. But Asians were not invited, it was strictly a white club. Asians were not invited to join. We were encouraged to become class officers, to participate in sports, to join different other clubs like, oh, maybe the Girls Association which was a sport club, sporting club. I remember I played softball for the GA. We were encouraged to join those kinds of clubs, but never invited to join the sororities as they were called at that time. And I felt, I understood that, I did. I can't say I resented it, but I just understood it. And maybe it's just my personality, my acceptance of life and things, but not to say that we as an Asian community in the schools, we excelled in other things. We were able to join the drama clubs and become active in the class structure as an officer or joined committees, things like that. We were given those opportunities.

VY: Were there any friends that stand out to you that you still remember or that you're still close to from high school?

JF: Well, during high school, even during the later years of our elementary, I joined, we formed a Girl Scout group. And so, through those years, those friends became... I became very close to those friends, and I was the only Japanese member of the group. And, you know, we would see each other on occasion, and if I saw them on the street, of course, we were friends. And yes, I didn't have other friends, non-Japanese, Caucasian friends growing up. And we had developed closeness. Many of them now, well, considering my age, many of them now are not in Alameda, or they're gone.

VY: I'm curious what it was like going to school... so we sort of left your neighborhood, which was, from what I understand, primarily Japanese, Japanese American, your community church and community, that's the community you came home to every day. But every day you would go to school, and it was kind of different. I'm just wondering if that's something that you remember processing it in any way? Like as you came home, I don't know if you were walking home or taking a bus or what, but sort of that transition of going out of your neighborhood, into another neighborhood, and then coming home again. If it felt more of a sense of security or safety in the area that you grew up in, and may be a little different as you're going out, I'm not sure.

JF: Yeah, that's a good question. I remember a really close friend that I had growing up in our school, grammar school, her name was Karen, Karen Snyder. And she lived, actually, she lived several miles away from my home. But we would go to each other's homes, we would get picked up by her mother at school and then go to her house, and she would bring them home You know, we shared a lot of time together. She loved to dance, she took dance lessons. And I remember twirling the baton, so we just shared a lot of different activities. She would come to our house and eat snacks with us and spend holidays and Halloweens together, those kinds of things. There were times, and there were folks who were not Japanese that I had close friendships with. But you're right. There's a security of knowing that you have your church friends, you have your family, you have the extended family again. So when you're not totally accepted, perhaps like I wasn't at Alameda High School, just during that sorority time, when I really felt like, "Okay, that's okay." I had that assurance that it's all right. I felt secure, I never felt insecure that I was left out, I was by myself.

VY: Yeah, I understand that. It's not so much that you... I mean, you accepted it because you had to, but it sounds like it's not so much that you felt that it was okay, but it was more that, well, you had this real strong sense of self and security in your own community to kind of fall back on.

JF: Yes, yes.

VY: Or that supported you.

JF: Right, absolutely. And it had to be, I think, because of our relationship with the churches, the Buddhist Temple as well. Because our friends were not just Christians, but they were from the Buddhist Temple. And so there was a group that we did things together. There was a group that we could call anytime we wanted to. It wasn't just a school friendship, but growing up within our big family, and there were lots of kids in the neighborhood. So we played with everyone. We played out in the streets, kick the can after dinner, the streets weren't so busy. We had developed crushes on other kids, and they weren't Japanese for me. We developed other close-knit friendships, but it was because we were a community. It wasn't... does that make sense, Virginia? We were just kids playing, we were just out there to have a good time.

VY: Can you give maybe, at least, one example of a joint activity that the two churches did together?

JF: There was one time, and I don't know why we did this, but the girls from our two churches got dressed up in our kimonos, and it had to be, maybe we were invited to do something as a group for an organization, but anyway, we all dressed up in our kimonos and we went to the Buddhist Temple, they have a beautiful garden there. And I remember... well, we've got photos of us lined up. And we were all the same age. I would say the difference in ages in that photo might have been two years, three years at the most. There were reasons to bring us together, and yet, there were social things, too, that brought us together. It was a nice time, it's a nice time.

<Begin Segment 14>

VY: Okay, so let's see. After high school, what was your life like after high school, what did you do? Did you go on to college?

JF: I did. I graduated and I went to... well, I better go back a little bit. At that time, I was dating my, who would end up to be my husband, future husband, George. And he was attending San Francisco State at the time. So I decided I want to go to San Francisco State as well, so I did, I did. I commuted with some friends, we drove every morning, and I did go to State and I majored in art. During my second year, I developed a thyroid condition. It was an acute thyroid condition, which, at that time, the treatment was, well, I had to leave school, I had to leave school and rest and prepare for surgery. Now, today, I don't think that happens, but anyway, that's what happened to me. So I left school and I had to look forward to six months down the road to have thyroid removal surgery, which I did. So that ended my college career, because after I had my surgery, I was working part-time. I had worked for this company since high school part-time all throughout my growing up time. And so I went back and joined them and continued working until I got married.

VY: What kind of work was it?

JF: Well, I started out in high school as a gift wrapper, it was a women's apparel store called Goldman's. And by the time I left, before I got married, we started out with maybe three different stores when I first joined them, and we ended up with seven. It was a chain in the East Bay. So I, all my high school years I worked there part-time as a gift wrapper, and behind the desk. The desk meaning, at that time, folks would bring up their purchases to this long counter and we would wrap them and take the money and open accounts and all that kind of thing. It's different today. So that's where I grew up, in a women's apparel store. After I left school and had my surgery, I went back to work there. I went back to work at that store here in Alameda, and kind of just worked my way up to eventually I became a buyer for the store. I became a dress buyer, so I had the opportunity to go to markets in San Francisco, even to New York and Los Angeles with other buyers, purchase the next big fashion.

VY: That sounds really interesting, I have a couple questions about that. One is an early question about... so you said you started doing this, working at this job as a gift wrapper in high school?

JF: Yes.

VY: I'm wondering, because I know you said before that you didn't have a lot of special clothes and that sort of thing. And now you're working in a women's apparel shop and you're wrapping things that other people are buying, I'm just wondering what kind of thoughts are going through your head?

JF: Lots of different thoughts. [Laughs] I've always loved clothes, and growing up, new clothes were not... we didn't buy any clothes, we didn't have new clothes. That's another story. Because I eventually did get to go to this one store and buy my dress that I always wanted and then go across the street and buy the shoes that I've always wanted. But growing up, back to Goldman's, yes, it was a very nice women's apparel store. And the owner of this store, his name was Bruce Goldman, would come to the stores often just to make his rounds. And he would come in and look at me and greet me. We got along fairly wonderfully. But he would always say, if he saw something that was a little different from what we were carrying, he would say to me, "Loving hands at home." Do you know what that means? That I had made whatever I was wearing. I sewed, because I grew up sewing. I grew up learning how to sew clothes, our own clothes. We took sewing classes in elementary school, and we learned how to sew. So I knew exactly the first time he said that to me, because I was so little taken aback. I thought he was being very mean, and I know what I was wearing. I had made a skirt and I was wearing a white blouse. And I said to him, I said, "Mr. Goldman, if you want me to buy our clothes, maybe you should give me a raise." [Laughs]

VY: That's great.

JF: What else could I say to him? You know, if he's going to say, "Loving hands at home," and make note of what I'm wearing, I think that was his way of saying, "Come on, Judy, spend your money, buy some clothes." We got a wonderful discount, yes, but still. I wasn't prepared to buy my wardrobe at Goldman's.

VY: That's great, I love that story, that's great.

JF: But I did work for them for many years until I got married.

VY: And then you became a buyer and you were able to travel. I'm wondering what that was like. Was that the first time you started traveling?

JF: Yes, that was the first time. Because growing up, we didn't travel, I did not travel. So several buyers and I would go to Los Angeles several times a year to the market. And the one big trip or two big trips that we took to New York, we went with other buyers, and the general merchandise manager, who oversaw the entire operation, so it was quite eye-opening for me.

VY: What was that like? As a buyer, what would you do if you all travel to this one area, and then what would happen?

JF: Well, say, for example, in San Francisco during Market Week when different manufacturers would bring all of their samples, we used to go to the Palace Hotel in San Francisco where they had rooms and rooms of manufacturers showing their goods. And we'd go and select what we thought we could use. So we would do that, and it was really quite an experience for me because I'm not that outgoing. But I did my job and I enjoyed it and met lots of different people and developed good relationships with those that I worked with. So it was nice, had nice lunches. Treated very well because the manufacturers or the representatives knew that we had seven stores, which we are buying for. And then in New York, we would be treated to dinners or lunches, stay at nice hotels. Boy, that was a treat for me.

VY: Yeah, I bet.

JF: Small town girl.

VY: That sounds great. Did you notice any differences between going to San Francisco or Los Angeles or the East Coast? Did you notice any differences in people or how they interacted with you, either as a woman or as an Asian American woman or anything like that?

JF: No, no. Because by that time... well, I was the only Asian working within the company. But no, I was never treated differently. Maybe because I was a novelty or different, I don't know. But no, they were very, very kind and very respectful. There was a difference, though, going to New York. I think they were just more businesslike or I don't know, it's just more, not warm. Not warm.

VY: More of an East Coast/West Coast thing.

JF: Yeah, could be, could be East Coast/West Coast.

<Begin Segment 15>

VY: Okay. So then what happened? You started a family?

JF: Yes. Well, we got married, George and I, in 1966. And when we married, he was working in Los Angeles, so I had to leave. I left Alameda, and that was traumatic, leaving our family, my family and friends, going to a place which, to me, was huge. But his job required him to travel back to the Bay Area every three months, so I didn't work because I said, "No, I'm not staying while you're going back home, I'm coming with you." So I was allowed to, it was okay for me to not work, and we came back every three months. So that was kind of nice, we did that for three years until he decided to come back to the Bay Area and start his own business, and yeah, that was coming home.

VY: And when you came back to the Bay Area, did you move back to Alameda or nearby?

JF: We moved to Oakland, we lived in Oakland. We rented for a while, then we were able to buy a house in Oakland and lived there for forty years. But we did move back to Alameda, that's where I do live now, so back home.

VY: And why did you move back to Alameda?

JF: Why? Well, everything was happening for me in Alameda, my parents were still here. My mother, my dad died in 1990. We were still living in Oakland, but my mother was, we were all gone from the house, so Mom was by herself. Then she became ill, for many years she was ill. So we were, my four sisters and I were taking turns every night, coming to stay with her during her night hours when the caregiver left. We would have a caregiver from nine or eight in the morning 'til after dinner, and then we would either come for dinner and then stay though the night, until the caregiver returned in the morning. So we did that for, oh golly, a lot, many years. I can't remember, was it five years or so? So every fourth night I was coming to Alameda, and during that time, my daughter and her family who also lived in Oakland, decided to move to Alameda, they found a home, and she was working here, she's a teacher in Alameda. And so they said, "Mom, what's the most natural thing for you to do?" I said, "Well, to come live near you." So we did move, we did move back home, back home.

VY: Yeah, everything brought you back where you started?

JF: Yes. For all the time that we did live in Alameda, we were -- I mean, in Oakland for the forty years, during my work time I worked in Oakland, but always in Alameda a lot because of my mother.

VY: What was it like working in Oakland all that time? Because you were used to this real close, kind of small town neighborhood, right? And I imagine living in Oakland was a little bit different?

JF: It was different. I loved it, I love Oakland. There's so much that it offers, and so when we bought our home in Oakland, that's where our daughter was born, she was born during that time and went to school in the neighborhood. And so that did become a close community for me, and I worked right there in the school, which was two blocks away from our house. And so, again, it was still that small town feeling, small community feeling. And yeah, but I love living in Oakland.

<Begin Segment 16>

VY: Let's see. So we have sort of come full circle back to Alameda, haven't we?

JF: Yes, we have.

VY: And that's where you are today.

JF: Uh-huh.

VY: And so what's life like now? You're back at your church?

JF: Oh, yes, I never left, except for the three years that we were gone to Los Angeles. It's just something that draws me there and continues to. Growing up there, it's just part of your life, more or less. I love living in Alameda, and my life here now that our grandchildren or my daughter and her family are here, we've always been very close. I just have, we just have the one daughter, and so always been close, always been close to the grandchildren helping them out, raising them, being there to babysit, whatever. So it's been just more of the same, watching them grow, being available for them, but then back to the community. And two sisters now live in Alameda, they have moved to Alameda. So it's just coming back home, I love it, I love it.

VY: Yeah. You know, as I've been learning more and more about the rich history of your community and the Buena Vista United Methodist Church, I saw this quote from a church member, and they said that, "We're a community of former refugees called to offer refuge to others," and then they went on to say that, "Our past informs our present and our future." And I was just wondering if you have anything to add to that or reflections on that about how that has informed your life and living that way. Because it seems to me that that was a part of you even just being brought up in the family that you were brought up in.

JF: Yeah. It has, in your words, Virginia, it has informed my life tremendously. It's so true, looking back, that community, the church community, just has opened their doors, opened their hearts to everybody. Not just Japanese, not just Asians, but it's just a warm and welcoming place. And part of it is we are, we do learn from our past experiences, and because of what the Japanese community went through during the war, and then having, being able to come back with respect and dignity and still opening our own doors, our own hearts to others. It's so important, and you know, what's amazing, I'm working on this marker project going through the history of our church. And I see a pattern, the pattern is of really social justice. That term is used so much, but it's one of our core values. We have become a reconciling congregation which means that we welcome, we encourage LGBTQ community. We were one of the first Asian Japanese churches to become a reconciled community, which means we made a statement that said "all are welcome." We offer sanctuary as we were offered sanctuary during the war, during World War II. We offer sanctuary to other immigrants, not just Asian, but we have opened our doors to immigrants from Central America, Mexico, to live in the parsonage. And you know, it's just a wonderful place to raise children because they grow up with this knowledge and this feeling and this responsibility. But we are still, today, we are a very diverse community. But we hold to the richness and the legacy of our Japanese heritage. And people who come, those diverse people, all those people learn and understand and embrace those values that we still try to continue. So I'm really proud of our community. I think we've done a good job. I'm just very grateful that my family, my children and grandchildren, can see this, too. Because this informs their lives as well. So that makes me so happy.

VY: Well, that's all so beautifully put, I find myself with no more questions to ask, unless you have something else you would like to add before we conclude today?

JF: No. I think... I like to explain to my family, my kids, when I say kids, I mean we'll say the grandchildren. Because they didn't grow up to know my mother, but she, for our family, and for me, I can only speak for myself, but she was such a wonderful example of a value that I hope that they can figure out that this is a good thing. Of being generous... I'm sorry. Not just generous in giving things, but generous of heart, of one's humanity, of one's really... giving name to a purposeful life, and that is to be able to share what you have received. Not only just to share, but so much of it is based on what we, as our family has received from our friends and just others that we have come to know. I'm sorry, but I get emotional because I think it's something that sometimes you can't teach except through, by example. So I'm finding that I'm so happy that I was born into this family. I give thanks for that, because they are who I am, or I am who they are, put it that way. I'm sorry, you probably want to cut this part out.

VY: No, I do not. Thank you so much, Judy, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your story with us.

JF: Oh, you're welcome.

VY: We're so appreciative of that, thank you.

JF: Thank you, thank you.