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VY: Okay, so let's talk a little bit more about growing up in the community and the different family dynamics that were going on, like the personalities of your parents and how everybody got along with each other. And within the family and in the community, different kinds of activities that people did together.

JT: Yeah, that's a whole lifetime, but I know that to start, Daddy was always working, but he had time to help people to, he was always willing to pitch in, but working three jobs and supporting six kids was difficult. And I think it was hard on him because he also coached baseball and did the things for the boys. And my mother, she was active in our school, PTA president for seven years, because there was one every year for six years. And so she had her activities, but she also, they also had a social life where they had what they called tanomoshi group. You know what that is, a tanomoshi group was a group... in their case, in the old days, tanomoshi were people from the same area who got together and helped each other out in time of need. I think that's kind of how koden started. Because when someone passed, they gave money to help defray cost of the funerals. But in my mom and dad's tanomoshi, they were husbands and wives, but they met separately. Mostly the wives, it was a women's group, and they invested money. And it sounds like a big deal, but they invested, I think, twenty-five dollars a month. But that was a lot of money in those days. And so that, if they needed, anyone needed something, they could ask and get money for whatever they needed. And so they were sort of an investment group, you might say, because they did a little dabbling in investment, but they were also more connected socially. And that's why we got to know people, the ins and outs, they met every month on a Friday and they'd rotate homes. And I used to laugh and kid Mom, because it was like, can you top this in terms of who made the food, what they served, and what dessert and everything, it was so funny. But that's how it was, in fact, we'd still kind of see who could make the best potato salad or whatever, you know what I mean. But the tanomoshi group was a great social outlet in Alameda for my mother's friends, her peers. And then, in terms of our family, Judy was the first, and she was... how should I say? Judy was an ideal youngster, a young woman and adult, and it was difficult for me because I was the renegade of the family. [Laughs] But it's okay because I've learned you are who you are, and so I would say we didn't have time for sibling rivalry because there was no time, place or energy for that except for who has on my slip or whatever, who took my this, or where's my book? And in our home, we had three bedrooms, one bathroom, one and a half baths, and ten people. And then all those people coming over every day, so it was, wasn't even orchestrated chaos, it was just like you fend for yourself. But we'd always have dinner together. We'd sit around a big oak table and eat together. And not just us, because there was usually another kid who didn't have a brother or a sister, someone my mother would bring home. There was never just our family, it was always other people, and that's how we got used to growing up that way, we thought everyone lived that way. In terms of being close, I think we all had our own, I would call it our own gifts and graces. My brother, one of my brothers was more athletic. Actually, they were both athletic, but because they were just a year apart, there's a rivalry, right? And I won't go into all of the details, but it was not just baseball or kick the can, but it was yo yo contests and all this. So there was always competition. And that's how I think we all tried to do our best, because we had to. We don't want to be the low man on the totem pole.

And my younger sisters, to this day, I won't say we have rivalries, but when we get together for holidays or birthdays, we haven't done it in a while, but there's always a competition of some kind, a food competition. Who makes the best spam musubi, I mean, they're organized. They make a theme, lemon, or whatever the theme is, and we all tried to outdo each other. And I think that was partly from being so close in age. We just sort of had this natural spirit of competition, but then Mom always said there's enough love to go around. And that's what keeps me going today, knowing that without Mom and Dad, I see that we were going in different directions, but there's still that tie of being brothers and sisters close in age, and we're all still here. We have just lost a sister-in-law, my brother's wife, a week ago, and it's been devastating because we've led a charmed life, I believe we've led a charmed life. I lost my husband two and a half years ago and that was difficult. But we had a good life together, so I can say it was a good life and so I don't have "woulda-shoulda-couldas" kind of things. I think I have, my "would have" or "could have" or "should have" is that I should have not made him eat the spaghetti the third night. You know, those are silly should haves, but it sounds petty, but he ate it and every night he said, "Honey, that was good," and he'd clear the table. And you know, you got to love him because it couldn't have been good on the third night, but he always said it was.

So I feel that our lives, our family life, we have led a charmed life. Our parents struggled and our grandparents certainly struggled, but... and I think we're all struggling ourselves right now in different ways for different reasons, but it's not the same struggle. But I think we all share the common bond of understanding that it wasn't easy for them, and it's this whole idea of being grateful for them and actually grateful to our aunties and uncles which we didn't have, but we call them auntie and uncle. They really were part of our community, and so have great sense of gratitude, but also respect for what they went through. I don't like to dwell on it, but it's still painful to know what they went through because we see what people are going through now, and in a lot of ways it's the same, the poverty and wondering where our next meal is coming from, and then the war, all those things, they shape us. And maybe not in ways that we recognize, but for some darn reason, I was always sensitive to stuff. And sometimes I wish I wasn't, because I reminisce and feel guilty in a way that I have had such a good life. I know that sounds... I don't know how to express it in other ways, except that I've been very blessed in my life. And I guess guilt, I use the word guilt, and now that I'm thinking about guilt, I think guilt is a form of anger turning inward. That's kind of heavy, I think, but I think I've got to unwrap that a little bit. But I think when you are so fortunate and have had a good life, there's that layer of guilt intertwined with gratitude. That's a whole bunch of, ball of wax there, I'll have to unwrap that.

VY: Well, and I think it's also a part, it's how you choose to live your life and how you, the kind of positive outlook you have, right? And it seems like you were talking before about honoring your parents, it seems to me that you are honoring and uplifting your parents by really following their example.

JT: Yes, yes. I think my regret is I didn't say it enough to them. I think we all have that. Those are the "woulda-shoulda-couldas," you know. But I think, I've thought about this a lot, but I think even though I was outspoken, it was hard for me to express that without getting all gooped up. It's hard to look your mom or dad in the eye and be so grateful because you know how much they suffered for us. It's a ball of wax, but it's a good ball of wax, but I want the younger generation to know, not just the Nikkei generation. Because there's really, it's become so, the demographics are not... there's a Nikkei, I don't know what that's defined as anymore because of intermarriage and all that. But those are good values. And other cultures have it, too, but I'm proud that I grew up that way, but I didn't tell them that. I hope I showed them, but I didn't tell them in words. And my personality, I was more cursing. Well, cursing or saying, "Golly," why this and why that? But deep down inside, I was proud and wanted them to be proud of me. But if they did say they were, or showed their pride, I didn't like it either. You don't want to...

VY: Tread carefully, right?

JT: Yes, tread carefully, right.

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