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JT: And then from there, your family, with all the other evacuees, had to get on buses? Did you tell me they were buses?

KN: Oh, no. Well, then I think we, according to my brother Eddie, we had to go to Topaz in September. So when September rolled around the next year, we got on a train at midnight or something, it was dark, and we rode in it, down with the shades, and rode into Utah.

JT: Oh, you got on the train with -- and you remember that? The shades were drawn?

KN: Well, all I remember is it being so dark at night with the shades down. And the regular train noise and this and that, so you know you're going.

JT: Right. So you were just a little kid, so were you a good boy? Did you sit still like they asked you to?

KN: Oh, I'm still a good boy. [Laughs] Yeah, then we went to Topaz. First it was, they called it Delta, that's the name of the town. Then we got into Topaz, barracks.

JT: When you got there, do you remember what it was like? What was your first impression of Topaz? Because it was in October, right? It was in the fall, close to winter.

KN: Yeah. Well...

JT: Didn't you tell me that it was, there was so much dust or something, you couldn't...

KN: Yeah, when we first got there, it was nice. I can't remember all the dust. But as we left, the year after that, every year, we know when the dust storms are coming. Nighttime, the winter over there was tremendous, it snowed, four feet deep and all that. But as a kid...

JT: But you do remember going to eat in the mess hall at camp, right?

KN: Yeah. Well, beginning... not beginning. My mom, still, was going to the cafeteria, I mean, mess hall, and bringing food home for everybody.

JT: Oh, she brought it back to you, you didn't eat in the mess hall. And how many of you lived in the barrack?

KN: Well, we had one corner. And I guess it was divided two ways with Grandma there, and the four kids and my mom and dad. And (we) had a great big, what they call those black stoves.

JT: Potbelly?

KN: Potbelly. That's where I learned how to get coal and warm up the house.

JT: Where did you go get the coal?

KN: There was a great big coal pile in the center of the block. They had one, two, three, four, five, six... seven or eight, I don't know, I think eight. I think eight, four and four, I'm not sure, but they had a center where the coal pile is where we can pick it up.

JT: You picked it up in buckets?

KN: Buckets and then take it out. Basically it was my older brother, he did most of the hard work.

JT: Who?

KN: Eddie.

JT: Eddie?

KN: Yeah.

JT: And what were you doing?

KN: Tagging along. [Laughs]

JT: Did you have many kids to play with your age in the barracks?

KN: Yeah. I think we were in kindergarten, but I don't remember any of the names, I don't remember a lot. But it was a fun time.

JT: But you remember what you did when you were playing with them? What kind of things did you do?

KN: Throwing tops and playing marbles. What else was there?

JT: How do you throw a top?

KN: You roll it up and somebody throws a top there, you roll it up and throw the top on top of the other top. Because the top has a, like a nail there.

JT: And you win or you lose?

KN: Well, you hit the top and the other one will fall down and your top will still be going.

JT: Oh, I see.

KN: And even if it's not going, you still won the war because you hit the thing.

JT: So you played marbles and tops.

KN: Tops, yeah.

JT: Because remember, you were still just not even... well, you were in kindergarten, right? Did you go to school?

KN: Yeah. Don't remember how old, but we had fun there.

JT: You had fun at school?

KN: Yeah.

JT: Was it Japanese school or American?

KN: No, no, American school. I don't think we had Japanese school there.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 2021 Densho. All Rights Reserved.