<Begin Segment 20>

JU: By that time I was working with the Council of Churches as one of their... I was working at Geneva Glenn Camp, which was the Council of Churches camp. And so the Council of Churches was directed by the same guy to ran the camp, and his name was Harold Gilmore. He was a good friend of Dad's, and that's why I was working at his camp. [Laughs] Because he needed some ordinary labor. And so he organized, I think, Gilmore organized the help there, and the ministers who would be willing to help contribute. In actuality, when Gilmore helped, he helped... the one, the one big thing he helped with that was really important, when Pearl Harbor happened, everybody... the banks got closed on Japanese families. The banks got...

TI: Yeah, they froze the...

JU: They froze the assets of all the Japanese. And Gilmore was the chief official to get them to reopen the banks. Otherwise people could starve to death. And, yeah, he and the bishop, Bishop Hammaker and a couple of the other ministers of the big churches like Martin Anderson, Ed Wahlberg and Sam Marble, those guys are the ones that pitched in and convinced the bankers that they should reopen the funds of the Japanese. Because that was really crucial. I mean, the broken glass was one thing, but freezing the bank accounts of everybody was really tough.

TI: Well, I'm guessing it meant a lot to you and your, especially your father that these men came forward to help the community.

JU: Oh boy, absolutely.

TI: And to raise money for the church.

JU: Absolutely, yeah.

TI: Did he ever talk to you about that?

JU: Who, Dad?

TI: Yeah, your dad.

JU: I was, I was really in touch more with Gilmore at the time. But they had to, even then, they had to go visit Morrissey and Carr.

TI: Going back to Gilmore, did he ever, did you ever ask him or have a conversation of why it was important for them to do what they did?

JU: No. Well, I just, with him, all you had to do was mention it and he says, he says, "That's outlandish, and we need to do something about it." It was just like that.

TI: Did he ever talk about your father to you?

JU: Oh, yeah.

TI: What did he say about your father?

JU: Well, he thought he was, he was... they were good friends. He thought he was a pillar of the community, and we thought, of course, Gilmore was the pillar of the community.

TI: So what I'm trying to get a sense of is how... what happened in Denver didn't happen in all the West Coast cities --

JU: It didn't.

TI: -- or the cities where there was Japanese.

JU: I see.

TI: And I'm trying to get a sense of how much impact your father and his relationship with some of these men who were in a position of influence made a difference in the community. And if you had a sense of that at all.

JU: I'm absolutely sure that that was the case. And well, because they were a natural group that met every week, every month. He met with the Methodist ministers quite regularly. And so, and half of these guys that really helped were Methodist ministers. And the others, of course, were clergy from other denominations, but primarily the Presbyterian and the Episcopal church. Dean Roberts at the St. John the Divine Episcopal Church, that was the downtown Episcopal church. He was of great help, and particularly when it came to the community having to do something for the banks, especially.

TI: Well, in addition to the banks and the community issues, on even larger state issues, Colorado was unique in that the governor essentially welcomed -- and actually different tiers, I mean, initially for the "voluntary relocation" he was welcoming, later on with students, and then later on, even from the people in camps. Really made Japanese families feel welcome in Colorado. What influence do you think this network had on the governor in being so welcoming?

JU: Well, I don't know. I think that he didn't get reelected, I know that for sure. But you never heard much from people who really hated that, because they were prone to think "all's fair in war." "In love and war" is the way it goes, of course, but "all's fair in war." We never had, we never had any vocal utterances like that from people. There was always a rabble rouser around, but they were, tended to be ignored. If the governor said something, that usually was adhered to.

TI: But the price he paid was he wasn't reelected.

JU: He just wasn't reelected.

TI: And do you think his, his stance, his welcoming nature to the Japanese was a factor?

JU: A factor? I'm sure it was. Because, because we're at war and we're losing people, "our sons are dying" is the way it goes, of course.

TI: Do you think your father had a sense of what Governor Carr was doing, and perhaps how controversial that might have been on a political basis?

JU: Oh, absolutely. He was so grateful for Carr.

TI: Do you recall anything he said specifically about Governor Carr?

JU: Oh, he was always coming back from the (capitol), I'd only catch him when he was coming back from the offices and saying what happened. And, well, from the very rationing bit, and the cameras being, everything being confiscated by the FBI, the radios and the cameras and the things like... from Denver you got a military camera? And so it was all very ridiculous. And, but they were very, Carr was very much appreciated by the Japanese community. But, you know, it was a small segment of Colorado attitudes, is the Japanese community.

<End Segment 20> - Copyright ©2009 Densho and the Twin Cities JACL. All Rights Reserved.