<Begin Segment 16>

SN: This sounds really interesting, and I'd like to go back to it. But, what I'd like to do for the viewers who see this interview, is kinda take you step by step, because this is a very important part of your life, historically very important. So what I'd like to do is maybe start with Pinedale, and then we'll go right into Tule Lake.

SH: Okay.

SN: Because I think it is very important for people to get an idea of what this place looked like. Now, you said that, in comparison to other assembly centers, that Pinedale was relatively new. So, let's start from there. Okay, what happens as soon as you get off the train? What did you see first?

SH: Oh, we saw the barracks. We called them barracks. It was flat, just table flat. We got onto army trucks, and they, from the train siting, they took us to the camp, and we went through the office and was assigned. We told them how many in the family and then we got assigned fancy name apartments.

SN: I'm assuming by your reaction that it wasn't exactly apartment-like. [Laughs]

SH: The apartment number, the apartment number one, barrack number such and such.

AI: And, what did it actually look like, that barrack room?

SH: It was just a bare room. Except for army cots, asphalt floor.

SN: So, you actually had cots in the room when you came in? You didn't have to... for example, we heard some stories where people had to stuff their own mattresses with straw.

SH: No, we didn't have to.

SN: Now, when you first saw the barracks, because this is the first time that you see where you're now going to have to live, and they took you into the army trucks to take you to this area?

SH: Yes, from the train to the camp.

SN: So as you're on the army truck, and you're going towards this camp, what was running through your mind?

SH: Was wondering what kind of a place it was going to be, and how long we were gonna be here. We knew it was hot, we could feel that. That was the main worry, what kind of a place, and what kind of treatment we were gonna get there. And we were treated okay. I, under the conditions I couldn't... you know, I was against the... really mad about having to be evacuated, with no trial, no accusations, we didn't do anything wrong. But long as we had a place... it was, it was new, everything was built new from the ground up. People from Seattle were sent to Puyallup fairgrounds -- horse stalls, and whatever buildings they had, fairground buildings -- nothing was brand new like we were.

AI: Was Pinedale fenced? When you were on the truck getting to the actual Pinedale center, did you go through fencing? Or how did you arrive, do you remember what that was like?

SH: I don't remember too much, but we went there by train, then from the train to the actual camp, it was a short truck, army truck, ride.

AI: And were... did you get any instructions once you got there, or was it just very obvious that you weren't going to be leaving?

SH: Oh, we knew that we weren't gonna be leaving. They said they were gonna, you gonna be assigned barracks and they put us in army trucks with army guards. It was a short ride from the railroad siting to the... they had that figured. They built it close so where they won't have to build a railroad, the railroad was already there. And made sure that there wasn't any buildings, any farms, any people too close by. They went through a lot of work, nobody really give 'em any trouble. I heard of one or two cases. I heard of one being shot and killed, and it was an older man. This was in Tule Lake. It was surrounded by a barbed wire fence, and, this was later on, he, he had a dog and his dog got away from him and went under the fence, so he didn't think nothing of it. He went chasing after his dog and a guard thought he was trying to escape or something -- they had guard towers -- and shot. And he was killed. That's a one that I have confirmed, that he was shot and killed. And he wasn't trying to run away. He couldn't go very far out in that desert. They should know better. Then they're saying that these guards were to protect us, in the guard tower. But if you look at the pictures, and I remember seeing and you look out at the guard towers, they didn't have the guns pointed away from the camp, there were guns pointing, and they were looking in to the camp. They didn't have to have guns looking into the camp, we didn't have any arms or anything, no way. It would foolish to try to get away from there anyway. And they should have known that this old man, he wasn't trying to run away, he was chasing after his dog. Felt real bad about it when I heard that. So, everybody was real particular and very careful that they wouldn't even go near a fence. And the fence was real close to the outside perimeter cam, cottages, or whatever you call 'em. Call 'em cottage after you got to a better camp, but this was barracks, army type barracks. Main thing I didn't like was it was so hot. Coming from the Northwest, to go down in that hundred plus temperature, without air conditioning, it was hard on us. It was hard on older people. There were people that were, health weren't too good, but they did have hospital.

<End Segment 16> - Copyright © 1997 Densho. All Rights Reserved.